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I would like to use it for single point recordings of classical chamber or solo musicWhat are the options used or new.
Thanks.
dee
;-D
Follow Ups:
dee,I use HD recording at home of classical: either piano,harpsichord, sometimes with gamba, plus clavichord, and even a MIDI used to simulate organ. Vistors have recorded jazz. I use a Peavey VMP 2 all tube mic pre with vintage NOS tubes and this goes to an Audiowerk 2 sound card onto PC HD and then CD. This is always with only a single mic pair.
After using Shure 5596Ds for a year, I borrowed a few microphones to try and I liked my friends' Neumann KM84s best as well as AKG B-ULS C414s. The Schoeps and M147 were nice too!
These are all expensive but the Russian Oktava M012 is based on a near copy of the KM84 for(then)$160 each. Oktava make a large diaphragm condenser also. I find small diaphragm easier to place with less unpredicted results.
I was warned about the inconsistent build quality so when I went to Guitar Center, I took 12 M012s into their preamp room and got a pair of reasonably similar sound, though I'm convinced one is a little hotter than the other.
Mine are cardioid but there are interchangable capsules. They come with a screw in -20dB pad and in a very attractive ribbed beige plastic box. None of this matched stereo pair in a cherry presesntation box with a brass plaque! This is the 'People's Neumann'!
Quite smooth, very good bass to the bottom of the piano, good highs, good off axis rejection, quiet. They are very sensistive and sensisive to placement. I tried A/B with the KM84 and the Oktavas are not too bad. My experience has been less great with vocal on the M012s.
But good results on a budget!
The Oktava experience is positive enought that I have put off my intended Neumann KM184 purchase much longer than I thought.
By the way, you could buy the KM184s for just over $400 each direct from Germany. Used, in your range, you might see the AKG C3XX series with interchangable CKXX capsules- very nice for keyboard also.
Cheers,
Bambi B
I was wondering when someone was going to bring these up. i have a matched stereo set I got from the soundroom www.oktava.com and these are very nice indeed. They cost a little bit more if you buy them from here, but they go through several extra steps of QC and are tested and matched. This was definitely worth it for me, as the GC in my area is no doubt stocked with everyone elses rejects, due to the large numbers of small filmakers and studios here.Individual printouts of the frequency response curves are included and they come in a nice cedar box, which doesn't have much of the ole comrade shtick but keeps the moths away and looks nice.
Sound is very good, shocking for the price. They are quiet, detailed and natural sounding, and maybe just a tad euphonic. I also use them through the AMR (peavey) tube preamp. I don't have any KM84's and bought these as a stopgap but like the above poster, I'm not in any hurry because these are quite nice. I do have some TLM103's and have used or heard other neumanns (including old tube models) so I have some idea at least of what I'm talking about. Like the above poster, I don't recommend them for vocals, as they are prone to popping, but you can buy a large diaphragm head for them which is supposed to be nice.
Greg B
Considering my heritage it may not be a bad idea. :-)
dee
;-D
dee,Then you may be in a position to read the cryptic symbols on the MC012 switch that I can only assume say "Signal DA!" and "Signal NYET!"
Cheers,
Bambi B
I like what the guys are writing on the earthworks web site. There is a pair there that could be had for that. Anybody can describe the difference between the QTC1 and the and the TC30K. A new pair of TC30Ks can be had for $1200 Is the 500$ price difference is worth for the type of recording i am planning to do. The mikes will be fed directly into a PR99 (15 or 30 ips 1/2 track no NR) with the minumum length of silver cable necessary. I will be taping small groups of acoustic instruments in relatively small spaces (seats about 150). I do want room sounds. I want the recordings sound like the recording on Sheffield Lab 24 (stravinsky and Debussy) involved but not in your face, with incredible clarity. I want quick non mushy bass. I do not like overpowering burry resonant bass. I like the my bass on the clean dry, articulate side. I need not swim in it, but it has to hit me in the chest when it is called upon.I do not want to much variation on anything. I think i can get away doing everithing AB. In the future an pair of XYs may be in order but if i am going to spend 3 times as much what i though i wanted, i want to keep it simple :-)
Thanks in advance,
dee
;-D
As I remember, Sheffield Labs used predominantly modified AKG's. If you can scrape together $1700 I would buy the Sony mic I suggested, and get rid of the PR99 in favour of a resonable digital recorder. The noise performance will be very noticibly better, as will the response. The bass sound you will get will be more dependant on the room you record in than the mics you use, with the exception of extention. For example Schoeps mic's, one of the most favoured classical recording mics (Approx $1400 each) tend to be bass light. However the "dryness" of the bass in a recording situation will be more dependent on the pyhsical sound of the room, and the instruments played in it. As for using expensive silver cables, save your money and put it into the mic's. Good professional mics can all drive 300ft of cable without any audible artifacts. Good professional mic cable (oxygen free) should cost about $1.00 a metre.Regards
Roland
Thanks for the advice,Actually the PR99s are part of the experiment. I will get a digital recorder later :-).
I have enough silver to make the cables. They are the same construction as the ICs used in my system. I also want to see if these make any difference comapred to off the shelf Mic cables.
No offense intended but i am trying to run a couple of experiments to understand what does and what does not make a difference in process of recording using a single pair to a reasonable quality analog recorder and later using the same mic setup to a digital recorder of similar caliber. I have not selected a soutable candidate for the digital deck as of yet. Let me play and i will let you know how it turns out, maybe it is a waste of time :-)
dee
;-D
You want mics that cost less than $250 each and you are talking about using silver audiophile cables? Put your priorities straight. Get better mics and use good quality commercially made cables.Not to rain on your parade, but mic cables need to be flexible, non-microphonic (since they get moved around while you are using them), and durable. I doubt if homebuilt audiophile cables (no matter what kind of metal they are made out of) are going to perform as well as any decent quality commercially made mic cable. If you can point me to any serious recording engineer who uses homemade silver mic cables I would be astounded. All of those recordings you go wow over on your tweeked to the max, hi-fi system were recorded using plain jane copper conductor commercial mic cables.
If you are serious about making your own mic cables, then be sure to use twisted pair wiring with good coverage braided shields (french braid is best). Don't try to use single ended cables for your mics or your noise floor will go up. Besides any decent mic-preamp is going to expect XLR connectors anyways. If all your stuff has are 1/4" connectors, then you have junk gear and all the fancy cables in the world aren't going to change that.
Phil
If you are looking for a single point stereo mike, look no further than the Sony ECM range. the 959 and the 999 are both in your price range and will give excellent results. You can get better mic's, but these are going to cost you a lot more money, and the sonic gain will be disproportionate to there cost. As a footnote, I wouldn't recommend the Rode mics for this type of application, as they tend to be a little bass light, the KM184's are good but would be over your budget, earthworks are also good, but Omni's whilst great mics to have, can be in certain situations be "room reactive" and if you don't have a kit of mics to fall back on, may be limiting. Good luck with whatever you decide to buy.Regards
Roland
First, I dont think you will like any dynamic mics available. But you do need to figure out what kind of sound you want before you buy something. Do you want thick and warm, do you want to avoid room sound or get a lot of it, do you want the utmost in accuracy? What kind of paint brush would fit you is only a question you can answer.As for the mics others have mentioned.
Neumann KM 184- great mics, a little bright. nice in a good room
AT 4041, half the price of a 184, less bright, slightly less revealing of flaws. Great mic might fit your budget.
Earthworks- amazing mics, you better have a good quiet room tho, they hear everything and it will sound like it sounds in real life.
Rode line, check out the rode line. I think they make amazing mics for the $. The new stereo mics are comparable to the 184 but well under $500. The NTK or 1000 are large diaphram mics that are very wanr and smooth. This can make getting a mono compatible stereo sample difficult, but stereo samples are lush and thick. Not the most realistic mics, rather pretty sounding.There are a thousand different mics to choose from. If you let us know what kind of sound you are looking for we can probably help more.
Frost
Well, you could look at the Shure SM-94, used it's big brother the SM-81. You might be able to even get a pair of KSM-27s as used, or demos just under that limit.
The SM81 seems to be favored by many for piano. Any particular reason?
How are they for picking up acoustic clues?
dee
;-D
The SM-81 is a good all-around neutral sounding mic. I have used them to mic the high register in piano, for drum overheads and for general room recording. They are longer than most small diaphram condensors which can make them more difficult to use in tight quarters. They are well built and pretty rugged. The SM-81 is a good choice, especially since you can find them used at decent prices and they are usually safe to buy used since they hold up well.Phil
$500 certainly rules out good condensers or ribbons. As far a dynamics go, If I limited myself to Classical and solo I would look for a pair of Electro Voice RE55. You might be able to find two used ones. Their response is super flat and would be even good for pipe organ work. Their omnis so you need to space them about 12 feet apart. If your interested in solo then I would go cardiod, probably two Electro Voice RE15. Dynamics will give you a quiter noise floor. The Sennheiser MD421 is also a good mic but I think their price is getting up there. All the best! James
Thanks,I was initially thinking a pair of Rode NT1s or a pair of Senheiser B3000s would fit the bill, but i will look at the EVs. I am planning to use the mikes directly with the Mike inputs on a Revox PR99, and maybe eventually on a 24bit dat.
dee
;-D
If I were banking on just two mics, I would spend a little bit more and buy two Neumann KM84s. Or two AKG C451s. Even used these retain their value and you could sell them if you got in a tite. And once you use a condensor you will never go back to dynamics except for special effects.
Checkout Earthworks scratch and dent sale page. These guys make really excellent omni condensers that are perfect for recording. They make good reference mic's for RTA analyzers too.Phil
There is a pair in the SD bin, Maybe i can convince my buddy to go in on the pair, even though it is really expensive :-(. From they self promotion these should be as good as the large diaphragm cardiods without the ills of having to move the large weight around.dee
;-D
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