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Especially if you're with a rock or fusion rock/jazz band, how do YOU establish your PA level and EQ in a small to medium sized club venue?"The guitars set the level, and the rest of us deal with it", is a common situation.
But assuming you have quality musicians, and they want to play together as an ensemble, what is your process for establishing the overall balance, EQ, and level?
Follow Ups:
Rock and Jazz/Fusion are two different things.For Jazz/R&B/Fusion, balance is the key, not sheer volume. You are trying to amp horns, piano... acoustic instruments. You want to keep the levels down and keep the need for monitors at a minimum. The musicians need to be able to hear each other. Don't try to run the sound like rock concert levels. KISS.
Keep the PA low, turn up the master gain just enough to balance the horns with the drums. Bass, guitar, and synth should have their own amps, but these can be kept low. Turn up the bass enough to balance with the drums. Then add guitar and synth. Now readjust the main on the PA to balance the horns with the rhythm section.
DON'T ride the gain on the horn players' mics. Set them and leave them alone. Nothing is worse than playing 16 bars (or more) before the amateurish soundman turns your mic up. Do that, and at the break they will take you out back for a discussion.
See the guy on the left? He's soloing, the guy on the right has backed off. Don't turn his mic down... they may start trading licks for all you know. Leave the mics hot.
Tonal balance... for horn players, if the mic sounds natural for the male speaking voice, that's about right for horn players. No bassy boom. Just a touch of warmth with the reverb, no echo-y sound.
" ... Keep the PA low, turn up the master gain just enough to balance the horns with the drums. ..."Yes!! In a smaller club, mic the vocals and acustic instruments, ONLY. Don't mic the drummer unless he/she sings, let the synth, electric piano & electric guitars work off their individual amps and keep PA mics away from all the other amps. Often you can leave the brass horns unmiced as well.
Small, low level monitors for lead vocals, acustic guitars as needed or not at all.
Set the master PA output levels so there is no clipping at all, set any and all individual mics to a "balanced" level so that they compare to the drum set.
If the drummer and electric instruments tends to "compete", the leader should tell 'em to quit it ... or get with a metal band.
A PA mic, amp and speakers are meant to be simply a method of getting the vocals (and low level un-amped instruments) heard above an otherwise loud group of instruments ...
Take a look at some old movies ... One of the best presentations on film are Cab Calloway's performances ... tight and no single instrument ever dominates the lead vocals ... and that's what it all should sound like = balanced, well rounded, every instrument distinctly heard, including the voices.
Though I don't do FOH sound anymore, I'd say, the answer is... It depends. It depends on the type of band, the individual club, the capabilities of the sound system you are using and the type of audience. I do have to agree that in smaller rock clubs, the drums are the best place to start. Especially the snare. When you get a good snare sound dialed in, at least for me, everything else followed. But, make sure you can get the vocals loud enough to stay on top. I see lots of guys that get a good instrument mix and leave the vocals muddy and buried.Good luck,
Actually I believe the Drums set the levels in a clubGet a big drum sound and build up everything else around it
For rock bands and so forth your talkin stage volumes of 105db or more
You have to get the sound system up and over that
Just my opinion from experience
As I stated in my previous postGetting the system as close to flat as possible to start with
is getting you in the ballparkOf course things will change when a room fills and IF a room fills
Get it ball parked and if the room fills up just check it again
and use your hearing to fine tune itYou have to find a happy medium between a full house, a house half
filled and a house with 10 people in it
Not a pro sound guy _big grin_And I guess it's gonna be different in different venues.
Just came from a wedding tonight.
Probably 250 people.
six? piece band setup across from the diaz where the wedding party was seated.
I was at a table right below and to the right. It shouldn't have been that bad a place in terms of where I was seated.
Absolutely horrible sound.
Highs were bright - lows were boomy, mids were sucked out except for the vocals - couldn't hear any chords from the guitar or keyboard.
Walked past the band - sounded OK up there - too loud, of course - but it's always loud at the front.
They had a conga player that didn't seem to add much, to me.
I told my wife - too bad, they can't get that guy to earn his pay by walking around the room once or twice and giving them some hand signals until they get a decent balance.
Granted, it was a hard room full of tables and people - come on, they were supposed be pros -
My wife and I had to leave early, to take my elderly parents home.
Glad we had an excuse to leave early -
They didn't have a seperate board and sound guy - so maybe my post isn't relevant for a pro sound forum -_grin_
My point is that if you don't have a man on the job, you need to send somebody around the room to listen and see what it sounds like to your audience.
Or maybe my point is - you're not gonna believe how bad it can sound out in the audience if you're not on top of this.
End of rant
"They didn't have a seperate board and sound guy - so maybe my post isn't relevant for a pro sound forum -_grin_"Chances are they made $500 to $1000 for the gig. Divide that by six. That's not much $ for a days work for a professional; a painter or plumber makes a lot more. Not hard to understand why no soundman or pro-level soundsystem.
Set the EQ so it sounds good to you. Turn the volume up until someone complains that it's too loud. If no one complains it's not loud enough.
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