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Re: USB Cables

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fmak

(A)

In Reply to: USB Cables posted by jbmcb on November 10, 2005 at 20:17:53:

USB Bridges are not perfect. Some do not work well or at all with external drives. Others sometimes fail during use for unknown reasons even without parallel use of other computer functions.
Why are there no serious tests on the integrity of usb/firewire connections; just statements that they are superior. I have found that MAudio usb boxes consistently cause software problems on quite different computers.
Some, please don't say that computer audio is perfect because it is theoreticaly 'perfect'.
Computers are still noisy despite so called silent boxes. There is noise and vibration from the drives and power supply unless one takes extreme measures. This is enough to downgrade the actual signal to noise ratio of -96 dB for CD. Hi Fi boxes can reach this or lower with hirez sampling and bit depth.

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Different argument - jbmcb 05:26:36 11/11/05 (2)
> USB Bridges are not perfect. Some do not work well or at all with external drives
I'm not sure what that has to do with digital audio, as bridges are usually meant for cameras. This is more of a function of the bridge not implementing the full USB mass storage command set, or the camera expecting propriatary commands to retreive images, than USB itself being a poor transport mechanism.
> Why are there no serious tests on the integrity of usb/firewire connections; just statements that they are superior.
USB has been around for quite a while, and as of the 1.1 spec release several years ago, is considered bulletproof if implemented correctly, which these days is a trivial task.
> I have found that MAudio usb boxes consistently cause software problems on quite different computers.
That's a result of poor drivers, not a problem with USB itself. I've had endless problems with the drivers for their Quattro USB interface. I've been using high speed USB2 DAQ boxes for about a year, and have never had a problem outside the realm of bad drivers or software.
> Some, please don't say that computer audio is perfect because it is theoreticaly 'perfect'.
The resulting audio may not be perfect, but if you use well written software, the internal audio handling is bit perfect. It's not a theory, it IS. If computers randomly dropped or altered bits they wouldn't run at all.
> Computers are still noisy despite so called silent boxes. There is noise and vibration from the drives and power supply unless one takes extreme measures.
Yep, the inside of a computer is really noisy, which is why you pull the DAC out and put it in a well designed, outboard USB box.

/*Music is subjective. Sound is not.*/
- Re: Different argument - fmak 12:36:48 11/11/05 (1)
  usb bridges are universal and the chips form the basis of usb operation; not just cameras - I don't know why you say this. For me, NEC bridges both usb and firewire spell trouble. I have no confidence that other makes are 'perfect'.
  If usbs are bomb proof, why do they fail? It doesn't matter if it is the hardware or software, they are more prone to failure than the good old hi fi boxes which have software and hardware integrity until something fails and lets you know.
  The only way to be objective is to subject computer audio systems to the same tests as hifi systems. Many computer audio tests are just mickey mouse and assertions.
  - Re: Different argument - jbmcb 21:19:35 11/11/05 (0)
    > usb bridges are universal and the chips form the basis of usb operation; not just cameras - I don't know why you say this.
    Oh, *that* type of bridge. There is a USB product class called a bridge that lets you plug a camera directly into a printer, or hard drive, or whatever.
    Actually USB bridge chips are only used when converting from USB to another bus type, such as 1-wire or SATA. On the computer side of things you have host controller chips, and most USB driver chips in peripherials are integrated into the micro. Many USB audio devices, for example, have the USB driver hardware integrated into the DAC.
    > If usbs are bomb proof, why do they fail?
    Usually it's a problem with bad driver software or lousy hardware design. If most USB hard drives are $150 and you buy an off-brand model for $80, guess where they're cutting corners?
    > they are more prone to failure than the good old hi fi boxes which have software and hardware integrity until something fails and lets you know.
    It's no different than hifi gear. If you buy cheap junk, in the computer or hifi product arena, it's more likely to fail.
    By the way, what does any of this have to do with the quality of USB cables, which is what I was originally arguing about?
    > The only way to be objective is to subject computer audio systems to the same tests as hifi systems.
    What makes you think they aren't?
    
    /*Music is subjective. Sound is not.*/

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