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Re: Just not on a Mac; Let's talk of the alternatives

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SuperDad

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In Reply to: Just not on a Mac posted by edumke on January 2, 2005 at 15:39:29:

Dear edumke:
As a fellow Mac user with a high quality outboard DAC (Dodson) to feed with S/PDIF data, I have read your recent posts with interest. I visited Steve of Empirical at CES and liked what I heard (with music that I know well) with his heavily modified/repackaged Transit converter. I did not have a chance to ask him about it with the Mac, though his and your comments about M-Audio's required OSX drivers do discourage me from getting his product for my Mac use.
I happen to have an M-Audio Audiophile USB now (given to me; same TI USB chip as the Transit but has external wall-wart), but its just being used with my G4 tower and Dodson on my desktop with some old Kef Q15s and my lovely vintage Marantz 19. So I really can not hear the driver shortcoming yet. But I'm gearing up to set up my big system in a month or so.
What I am now looking into are the alternative USB>S/PDIF converters--ones that can use Mac OS X Core Audio without additional drivers needed--a couple of which you mentioned, and a couple that I have spotted.
So here are my Qs for you:
1) Why did you suggest the Edirol UA-25 and not the UA-5? The UA-25 does not have coax S/PDIF output (only optical) and is USB powered, whereas the UA5 has coax S/PDIF and a wall-wart supply (Oade Bros. even offer a battery power mod for it).
2) Did you actually have a UA-25 in your system? Do you know which USB chip it uses? Edirol's cheaper UA-1D and UA-1X both use a TI 290x series chip which always resamples to 48khz--not good.
3) The $150 ESI/Ego Waveterminal you said good things about is appealing for the price, uses OS X Core Audio, and might be the sort of thing I could persuade Steve to mod with a power supply, tuned output interface, etc. (ala what he does for the Transit). Do you still have yours? Could you pop it open and tell me what USB chip it uses? It might be a Cirrus/Crystal, but maybe it is a TI such as the 1020 or 3200.
By the way, do you know of any good-sounding software upsamplers for the Mac? Preferably one that is integrated into an iTunes-like player. Wishful thinking I know. EAC and Foobar don't seem to be headed towards the Mac anytime soon, and Apple seems asleep regarding audiophile concerns (iTunes won't play a 24/96 file at all).
Thanks and regards,
Alex

Follow Ups:

Re: Just not on a Mac; Let's talk of the alternatives - audioengr 19:33:17 01/21/05 (0)
Alex - you should sell those KEF's and buy some B&W DM302's. They are all plastic and have small tweeters, but they really sound fantastic, particularly on bookshelves. You could probably pick some up for $100.
Re: Just not on a Mac; Let's talk of the alternatives - edumke 16:49:38 01/21/05 (2)
Alex,
I have tried to only comment on those products that I have experience with. I only use Apple Powerbook, G4, and G5 computers.
My standard was to compare to a CD tranport on my system (McIntosh MCD 205 transport, McIntosh 1201s into XRT-28s). I compared by having a friend switch instantly back and forth between the CDP and the computer system playing the same music. Note that I could not switch quickly between the DACs so my comparisons are mostly with the CDP. I have tried the following USB devices, DACs, etc.
USB to M-Audio Transit into Monarchy DIP/DAC - did not begin to compare to CDP
USB to Transit to McIntosh MDA 1000 DAC - did not begin to compare to CDP
USB to Apogee Mini DAC - Sounded better than CDP, maybe just a bit tiring
USB to Waveterminal into MDA 1000 DAC- Sounded better than CDP
USB to Edirol UA-25 into MDA 1000 DAC - Sounded better than CDP
Apple G5 optical to MDA 1000 sounds better than CDP
The Mini DAC sounds really, really fantastic. It is not an upsampling DAC. The MDA 1000 upsamples to 768kHz. The two sound very different, all I can really say is that I am now listening to the MDA 1000 almost exclusively. The Mini DAC might be just a bit "digital" sounding.
I did not listen to the DACs on the Waveterminal or the UA-25.
Further comments:
I would probably end up electrocuting myself if I opened up the Waveterminal, so I am not your guy there. The Waveterminal is $240. The UA-25 has additional drivers, but still sounds great on the Mac. I find the iTunes software virtually flawless, so I have not looked for any alternative. I think that if you want to upsample, it should be done in hardware.
- What we really want in a USB)S/PDIF box to start - SuperDad 18:13:43 01/22/05 (1)
  Dear edumke:
  Thanks very much for your detailed reply and listening test ranking.
  Just to be clear, I am not at all looking for a USB DAC. My outboard Dodson makes me very happy and we have found it hard to beat for quite some time. What I am honing in on is an USB> S/PDIF converter (don't care or mind if it has DA/AD functions or not) that:
  a) Does not require drivers other than Apple's OS X Core Audio to function;
  b) Does not upsample everything to 48khz (as a number of products using a certain TI series of USB chips do)
  c) Will pass 24/96 data.
  It would also be nice if the unit did not take its power from the USB bus, and had coax S/PDIF to start with. However, if I find one that meets criteria "a-c" above I intend to buy and send it to Steve at Empirical for some of the numerous mods like he has done on the Transit, so he can add the outboard power and coax-out if not already so equipped.
  (For those just joining this thread, the reported trouble with the M-Audio units--Transit and Audiophile USB--is that the drivers they provide for Mac OS X supposedly don't stack up well in ultimate systems--see reports eleswhere.)
  So edumke, while I plan to telephone Edirol and ESI/Ego Sys. next week, the last questions I guess I have for you are:
  1) Does the Edirol UA-25 REQUIRE the use of their drivers or are they optional, say for accessing certain configuration features?
  2) Did you choose the UA-25 over the similar UA-5 for some reason? As mentioned before, the UA-5 has an outboard power supply and a coax S/PDIF output, so surely that connection should be better than the Toslink.
  3) The Waveterminal has my interest, but does not appear to pass 24/96. Some of the units that don't are using the chipset that outputs everything as 48khz (and leaving it to a cheap unit to do the non-whole-number conversion from 44.1> 48khz is not desireable). Since you used the Waveterminal into your McIntosh Labs external DAC, did it (your DAC) give you any indication as to the sample rate it was locking onto? That would save opening up the little case and would be the definitive answer for all of us seeking a solution like me.
  Thanks again to all.
  ALEX
  - Re: What we really want in a USB)S/PDIF box to start - edumke 21:11:32 01/22/05 (0)
    Alex,
    1- The Edirol UA-25 does require the use of drivers. That does not neccessarily mean that it is not using the native Core Audio though.
    2- I think you have an excellent point about the external power supply on the UA-5. If I had to do it over now, I would probably choose the UA-5.
    3- The Waveterminal locks at 44.1kHz on the MDA 1000.
    Best of luck with this project. I hope you end up as happy with your system as I am with mine!
    Ed

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