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Anyone have personal experience with Empirical Audio's modifications to M-Audio Transit?

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Has anyone on this message board actually *used* Empirical Audio's mods to the Transit? I've gone through the threads but, although they are extensively mentioned, there are no reviews or personal experiences from inmates regarding these mods. I need an audiophile quality USB to S/PDIF converter, but given that the Empirical mods cost from $350 to $800, I don't want to go down that route without getting some feedback from the folks on this message board.
My other question would be, how would the modified Transits compare with the Waveterminal U24, which is about $200, and is my other choice? I've ruled out the M-Audio Audiophile since I don't need most of its features and I would prefer something reasonably small.
My objective is simply to play MP3s off my laptop at a fairly high level of quality using the USB port to connect to my Wadia 861 DAC which feeds directly into a Hovland Radia amp connected to Audio Physic Virgo speakers.

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Re: Anyone have personal experience with Empirical Audio's modifications to M-Audio Transit? - TypeRecca 20:48:42 01/25/05 (2)
I had experience with the precursor to Steve's devices. I asked him to install a M-Audo Transit into Monarchy DIP Upsampler (which was also modded and had a superclock installed) around 6 months ago. The results were pretty incredible and I believe it lead Steve to develop his own converters. I'm sure they sound as good as if not better than the modded DIP.
The DIP sounded really good. I used the hardware upsampler and sent 16/44.1 signals via Foobar and ASIO4All. Most of my files were WAV and some FLAC's although I played mp3's every now and then as well. Obviously WAV's and FLAC's sounded awesome and MP3's were only so so. I didn't have anything to really compare it to since I sort of planned the system this way. I had a NAD 521i feeding Modwright CIA Dac with a NAD C350 Integrated on Triangle Titus 202's. That was an alright system, but obviously flawed.
I ended up with the modded Monarchy feeding a Empirical Modded Panasonic XR45 which is based on Equibit amps like TacT. The system was completely digital until the final conversion by the Equibit chips. It sounded really really clean and free. To the point where the Triangles (and my room) became the limiting factor. I wish I had the chance to audition the gear on better speakers, but I had to sell since I'm planning to move overseas shortly.
So after all of this, all I can say is that PC audio is legit. I think Steve's product is great because it serves as the perfect conduit for digital information to be sent from your Hard Drive to your DAC. The only more direct method would be to install a transit directly into your DAC and avoid any connections to reduce jitter even further.
Sorry for the long wind. Hope it helps in your search.
- Tell me more about the mods to the DIP Sampler? - Saad 13:15:36 01/26/05 (1)
  Thanks for the info. Very helpful. I seem to be going down the same path as you. I've already ordered a Monarchy DIP Upsampler and was planning on ordering a USB Freeway from Empirical (i.e. all the Transit mods except superclock). However, I guess I could do what you did and have a Transit installed in the DIP and have the DIP modded. Tell me what the mods to the DIP were? Were the Transit's electronics installed *inside* the DIP case? Were they powered by the DIP's cable or with their own power cord? Given that the DIP Upsampler re-clocks and reduces jitter, and my Wadia DAC is no slouch either, is the addition of a superclock worth it? Most importantly, how much did these mods to the DIP Upsampler cost you? Thanks.
  - Re: Tell me more about the mods to the DIP Sampler? - TypeRecca 17:12:08 01/26/05 (0)
    The DIP was modded with upgraded caps and diodes, true 75ohm BNC Connectors, a Superclock 1 and the transit. The transit was powered via USB and mounted directly inside of the Upsampler.
    Its difficult to directly compare it to any of Empirical's current offerings since it was kind of a frankenstein box. I think that the current Off Ramp would be the best comparison. The Off Ramp has the benefits of a cleaner power supply, shoter signal chain and less data manipulation than the Modded DIP. I heard benefits of upsampling, but you can also use Foobar to do the upsampling for you. The Transit will pass along a 24/96 signal if it is fed one and Foobar will upsample and feed it. The upsampling chip in the DIP is the same as the one in the Perpetual Technologies P1A, although I believe it is a more simple application of it.
    The upgrades to the DIP cost in the neighborhood of $1000 including the cost of the DIP, the Transit, the Superlock and the mods. I think this makes the Off Ramp a good bargain.
    The only thing that would keep me on the DIP route is if you absolutely needed the upsampler in the DIP. Be warned though, the DIP UPSAMPLER IS UNCAPABLE OF PRODUCING 16/44.1 SIGNALS. There's only a jumper for 24/48 or 24/96. I kept it on 24/96 exclusively and only sent 16/44.1 from Foobar via ASIO4All. With software upsampling, you have the option of keeping it at 16/44.1 if you were feeding an ack or any other nonos device. I wish I could tell you if there is a difference in performance between the software and hardware upsampling, but at the time there was nothing to compare it too. I can tell you that compared to the stock transit, the modded DIP dominated over it. It was the difference between a Honda Civic and a Porsche 911.
    If you're going to be feeding a Wadia DAC, I imagine that feeding it a clean, jitter free 16/44.1 signal will put you in a really good place. You can experiment with the plugins in Foobar to upsample or even do room correction after that.
Re: Anyone have personal experience with Empirical Audio's modifications to M-Audio Transit? - bzurcher 20:00:32 01/20/05 (5)
Yes I have the Empirical Audio Freeway. I have been waiting for the unit to "break in" to post my impressions as I have only 30 hours of use so far. However, my initial impressions are very favorable. I'm using a dedicated custom music computer- EAC-Flac-Foobar- Empirical audio USB Freeway- Modwright level I Perpetual Tech P1A/P3A - FT audio passive pre-Yamamoto 45 amp- Cain and Cain Single Horns.
Clearly this system is far superior to my old CD transport(Modwright Sony 333 ES SACD).After experiencing computer playback I doubt I will ever use a CD transport again. In fact I sold my CDP today. I can't really tell you how the Freeway compares to other options as I have very little experience. The concept of the USB Freeway just made sense to me in terms of using USB to output the digital signal therfore removing the signal from the electronically noisy computer environment. I have compared the S/PDIF output from my motherboards soundcard to the USB Freeway and the Freeway is clearly better the better option. However,I understand the digital output from motherboards is often of poor quality so perhaps this isn't a very fair comparison.
I did have the good fortune to be able to demo the outstanding VRS Audio system as the source in my stereo. As you may know the VRS uses a Lynx sound card for its DAC. I belive the Lynx sells for about $700. I haven't performed an A-B-A comparison between the VRS and my computer system but I belive the Freeway /Perpetual Tech combo is very close to the VRS. Hopefully I will be able to compare my system side by side to the VRS in the future. Since for now I'm just depending on my imperfect sound memory.
I hope this is of some help to you.
- Freeway and VRS - Jon L 23:52:38 01/20/05 (4)
  Hmm. I have a Freeway also, and I have heard it driving Empirical's Turbomod Perpetual P3 DAC.
  Which VRS did you demo? (Platinum, Gold, etc) and are you running the Foobar via ASIO using 24/96 upsampling?
  - Re: Freeway and VRS - bzurcher@comcast.net 10:03:55 01/21/05 (1)
    The VRS Audio system I have heard is an early model. It was made before VRS had the 3 options. I believe it is very similiar to the current Revelation Gold.
    I'm running Foobar with ASIO output and 16bit fixed output. I use the Perpetual Tech P1A to interpolate and upsample to 24/96. I tried using Foobar to do the upsampling but it seemed to me that the P1A does a little better job. It just sounds smoother to me using the P1A to upsample.
    I'm on the short list to demo the Empirical Turbo Mod P3A. What did you think of the unit? I have read that most people who have the Turbo mod P3A find they dont need/want their P1A's any more for upsampling or jitter correction. Any thoughts?
    - Re: Freeway and VRS - Jon L 13:37:13 01/21/05 (0)
      Steve's P3A is a fine unit. It's quite an achievement, really, coming from the rather old, stock P3A. Very finely graded resolution, better detail, refinement, and SLAM. Only roadblock is the price, but you know how that goes..
      Haven't A-B'd P1A vs. Foobar upsampling into Turbomod P3A, but since I find ASIO resampling to be plenty smooth (internally to PCI, though), I suspect you won't need the P1A. You'll find out, I suppose.
  - Re: Freeway and VRS - Dan W 09:55:30 01/21/05 (1)
    Great post and thanks for sharing. You have a very nice system, particularly with the SET amps paired to Caine and Caine speakers. Excellent combo in my opinion for SET based system.
    I have heard an early version of the VRS system - not sure what version, etc. - but it was in my own system and I was IMPRESSED. It provided an extremely musical and 'live' presentation.
    I am personally trying to decide however, if this is the best approach or if it makes more sense to get the digital signal out of the noisy environment of the PC prior to D/A conversion, etc. In this regard, I am inclined to prefer the use of a computer-based music server as just that, a server, with digital data being output to a good D/A device.
    Steve's work is interesting and USB seems to be a very viable means of data transmission. I would welcome others' experience with this form of digital 'link', vs. SP/DIF from soundcard, etc. The real issue here is clocking and jitter of course.
    Thanks for sharing your experiences.
    Dan W.
    - Re: Freeway and VRS - Dawnrazor 09:10:41 01/26/05 (0)
      Personally, I don't buy the harsh environment idea.
      Sure it is dreadful for audio in theory, but some sound card manufactures are good at working in this environment.
      How could you be impressed if the environment really affected the signal?? Obviously the VRS system is able to handle this "harsh environment" quite well....
Just not on a Mac - edumke 15:39:29 01/20/05 (8)
As long as you don't have a Mac . . . .
The Emperical site (my experience also) states that the Transit is not recommended on a Mac.
Probably due to their drivers. The Waveterminal sounds great on a Mac. It does not use additional drivers - it uses OSX Core Audio drivers.
- My Powerbook/Transite combo works fine... - GerSonic 19:36:28 01/21/05 (1)
  Just for the record...
  My Powerbook Ti works great with the USB Transit. I'm not sure what Mac related problems you guys are referring to.
  There are new OS X drivers on thier web site...maybe you should try those drivers...or if you are not using Jaguar...pony up a few bucks and upgrade.
  ...or maybe I'm just luky (or deaf)
  - If you like it, stick with it! - edumke 21:23:13 01/21/05 (0)
    The last thing you should do is change components because of someone else's opinion!
- Re: Just not on a Mac; Let's talk of the alternatives - SuperDad 15:16:34 01/21/05 (4)
  Dear edumke:
  As a fellow Mac user with a high quality outboard DAC (Dodson) to feed with S/PDIF data, I have read your recent posts with interest. I visited Steve of Empirical at CES and liked what I heard (with music that I know well) with his heavily modified/repackaged Transit converter. I did not have a chance to ask him about it with the Mac, though his and your comments about M-Audio's required OSX drivers do discourage me from getting his product for my Mac use.
  I happen to have an M-Audio Audiophile USB now (given to me; same TI USB chip as the Transit but has external wall-wart), but its just being used with my G4 tower and Dodson on my desktop with some old Kef Q15s and my lovely vintage Marantz 19. So I really can not hear the driver shortcoming yet. But I'm gearing up to set up my big system in a month or so.
  What I am now looking into are the alternative USB> S/PDIF converters--ones that can use Mac OS X Core Audio without additional drivers needed--a couple of which you mentioned, and a couple that I have spotted.
  So here are my Qs for you:
  1) Why did you suggest the Edirol UA-25 and not the UA-5? The UA-25 does not have coax S/PDIF output (only optical) and is USB powered, whereas the UA5 has coax S/PDIF and a wall-wart supply (Oade Bros. even offer a battery power mod for it).
  2) Did you actually have a UA-25 in your system? Do you know which USB chip it uses? Edirol's cheaper UA-1D and UA-1X both use a TI 290x series chip which always resamples to 48khz--not good.
  3) The $150 ESI/Ego Waveterminal you said good things about is appealing for the price, uses OS X Core Audio, and might be the sort of thing I could persuade Steve to mod with a power supply, tuned output interface, etc. (ala what he does for the Transit). Do you still have yours? Could you pop it open and tell me what USB chip it uses? It might be a Cirrus/Crystal, but maybe it is a TI such as the 1020 or 3200.
  By the way, do you know of any good-sounding software upsamplers for the Mac? Preferably one that is integrated into an iTunes-like player. Wishful thinking I know. EAC and Foobar don't seem to be headed towards the Mac anytime soon, and Apple seems asleep regarding audiophile concerns (iTunes won't play a 24/96 file at all).
  Thanks and regards,
  Alex
  - Re: Just not on a Mac; Let's talk of the alternatives - audioengr 19:33:17 01/21/05 (0)
    Alex - you should sell those KEF's and buy some B&W DM302's. They are all plastic and have small tweeters, but they really sound fantastic, particularly on bookshelves. You could probably pick some up for $100.
  - Re: Just not on a Mac; Let's talk of the alternatives - edumke 16:49:38 01/21/05 (2)
    Alex,
    I have tried to only comment on those products that I have experience with. I only use Apple Powerbook, G4, and G5 computers.
    My standard was to compare to a CD tranport on my system (McIntosh MCD 205 transport, McIntosh 1201s into XRT-28s). I compared by having a friend switch instantly back and forth between the CDP and the computer system playing the same music. Note that I could not switch quickly between the DACs so my comparisons are mostly with the CDP. I have tried the following USB devices, DACs, etc.
    USB to M-Audio Transit into Monarchy DIP/DAC - did not begin to compare to CDP
    USB to Transit to McIntosh MDA 1000 DAC - did not begin to compare to CDP
    USB to Apogee Mini DAC - Sounded better than CDP, maybe just a bit tiring
    USB to Waveterminal into MDA 1000 DAC- Sounded better than CDP
    USB to Edirol UA-25 into MDA 1000 DAC - Sounded better than CDP
    Apple G5 optical to MDA 1000 sounds better than CDP
    The Mini DAC sounds really, really fantastic. It is not an upsampling DAC. The MDA 1000 upsamples to 768kHz. The two sound very different, all I can really say is that I am now listening to the MDA 1000 almost exclusively. The Mini DAC might be just a bit "digital" sounding.
    I did not listen to the DACs on the Waveterminal or the UA-25.
    Further comments:
    I would probably end up electrocuting myself if I opened up the Waveterminal, so I am not your guy there. The Waveterminal is $240. The UA-25 has additional drivers, but still sounds great on the Mac. I find the iTunes software virtually flawless, so I have not looked for any alternative. I think that if you want to upsample, it should be done in hardware.
    - What we really want in a USB)S/PDIF box to start - SuperDad 18:13:43 01/22/05 (1)
      Dear edumke:
      Thanks very much for your detailed reply and listening test ranking.
      Just to be clear, I am not at all looking for a USB DAC. My outboard Dodson makes me very happy and we have found it hard to beat for quite some time. What I am honing in on is an USB> S/PDIF converter (don't care or mind if it has DA/AD functions or not) that:
      a) Does not require drivers other than Apple's OS X Core Audio to function;
      b) Does not upsample everything to 48khz (as a number of products using a certain TI series of USB chips do)
      c) Will pass 24/96 data.
      It would also be nice if the unit did not take its power from the USB bus, and had coax S/PDIF to start with. However, if I find one that meets criteria "a-c" above I intend to buy and send it to Steve at Empirical for some of the numerous mods like he has done on the Transit, so he can add the outboard power and coax-out if not already so equipped.
      (For those just joining this thread, the reported trouble with the M-Audio units--Transit and Audiophile USB--is that the drivers they provide for Mac OS X supposedly don't stack up well in ultimate systems--see reports eleswhere.)
      So edumke, while I plan to telephone Edirol and ESI/Ego Sys. next week, the last questions I guess I have for you are:
      1) Does the Edirol UA-25 REQUIRE the use of their drivers or are they optional, say for accessing certain configuration features?
      2) Did you choose the UA-25 over the similar UA-5 for some reason? As mentioned before, the UA-5 has an outboard power supply and a coax S/PDIF output, so surely that connection should be better than the Toslink.
      3) The Waveterminal has my interest, but does not appear to pass 24/96. Some of the units that don't are using the chipset that outputs everything as 48khz (and leaving it to a cheap unit to do the non-whole-number conversion from 44.1> 48khz is not desireable). Since you used the Waveterminal into your McIntosh Labs external DAC, did it (your DAC) give you any indication as to the sample rate it was locking onto? That would save opening up the little case and would be the definitive answer for all of us seeking a solution like me.
      Thanks again to all.
      ALEX
      - Re: What we really want in a USB)S/PDIF box to start - edumke 21:11:32 01/22/05 (0)
        
        In Reply to: What we really want in a USB)S/PDIF box to start posted by SuperDad on January 22, 2005 at 18:13:43:
        
        Alex,
        1- The Edirol UA-25 does require the use of drivers. That does not neccessarily mean that it is not using the native Core Audio though.
        2- I think you have an excellent point about the external power supply on the UA-5. If I had to do it over now, I would probably choose the UA-5.
        3- The Waveterminal locks at 44.1kHz on the MDA 1000.
        Best of luck with this project. I hope you end up as happy with your system as I am with mine!
        Ed
- Yep - audioengr 18:40:00 01/20/05 (0)
  I actually did a comparison of MAC and PC at THE Show in Las Vegas and the quality is definitely a little lower with the MAC. It must be the drivers.

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