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In Reply to: Re: OTL and Kharma -Yes/NO ?? posted by Shep on April 18, 2005 at 10:39:50:
In my first response, I neglected to consider the fairly low output Z of the MA2s, due to the number of tubes in the output stage. Surely the MA2 can easily handle a relatively efficient 4-ohm speaker (and probably some relatively inefficient ones as well) without Zeros. On the MA1s, I am not so confident; it would probably be wise to try them with and without Zeros and to determine for onesself which is best. If the impedance of the Kharmas goes BELOW 4 ohms at any critical midrange or bass frequencies, then I would submit that one would be best off with the Zeros. If the impedance tails off at high frequencies, e.g., above 4kHz or so, then it probably won't faze the amplifier at all, even without Zeros. Since the Kharmas have been successfully paired with the Lamm tube amplifiers by some reviewers, the MA1s may do fine without any help from Zeros. Just curious: have you tried the Tenor OTL amplifiers that made J Valin swoon when auditioned with Kharmas?
Follow Ups:
Haven't heard the Tenors. AtmaSphere put me off the merry-go-round when I plugged them in 7 years ago and other than updates over the years, wonderlust has remained in remission :)
You make good points re: the Kharma/AS pairing. I simply hoped to prevent dismissing OTL out of pocket given the likelyhood of success partnering Kharma with the more potent AS amps.
The question about the Tenors was kind of loaded. From what I can discern of their design and construction, I cannot imagine what makes them so wonderful, esp as compared to an MA1 or MA2. But I could be way wrong.
But you're not suppose to "imagine" how an amp sounds anyways. You're suppose to listen. :DSeriously, I think a lot of amps would sound simply wonderful with those Kharma speakers. Check David Robinson's amp reviews on positive feedback online. He has the grand ceramiques and has had quite a few amps come his way. I think the OTLs will run the Grand Ceramiques fine. But if you're in doubt, you can consider the Tenor Hybrids.
Perhaps you are correct. Tell me where to audition a pair in the Washington, DC, area or Baltimore or NYC or CT, and I will eventually get there. Until then, I do have to use my "imagination" based on what I can learn about the circuit design. But it sounds like you are talking about the hybrid hi-power tenors, not the all-tube OTL ones. Have you heard both?
I'm also in DC--don't have the Tenors, but have got Joule Electra VZN-160s if that's an itch you ever want to scratch.
Heard 'em many times. Great amps, but I like my (highly modified) Atma MA240s better. I'm not the least bit itchy to change my amplifiers, just curious about the Tenor OTLs, because there is a gulf between what they appear to be on paper and what users say they sound like.
The guy who sold me the Joule's also owned the Tenors at one point and liked the Joule's better. I think he was listeing to them with a Kharma speaker at the time.
Hello DaveCould you explain me how work the VZN-160's with your Merlins?.
At this moment I am using a Berning ZH270 with a Joule LAP-150 but I am considering to order in few months a VZN-100 or VZN-160 for my Merlin VSM-MX speakers, and I have serious doubts about what ones could be a better option since I listen mostly to classical orchestral music and my room is about 30 squared meters in size.I am a bit confussed since I have got mixed opinions from persons who I thought should mostly agree. Rick Brkich says, in a thread started by myself some months ago in the speaker forum, that with VZN-160s on the VSMs there is a greater sense of ease and punch. Bass definetion and control are a touch better as well. As one may guess, large scale works are quite impressive with VZN-160 VSM combo.
Jud Barber thinks also that the VZN-160's are the better option for my case but the VZN-100's would work OK too.
However, when asking to Bobby Palkovic, he said me that "the vzn 100 actually sound filler and would be a better match in some
ways. no problem with size of the room. the 160s have a lower output
impedance and the sound would have less upper bass. the 160 is for a
different kind of speaker and not needed for the vsm".So, what should I do?. I cannot listen to both amplifiers to decide for myself, and I thought that may be you have had the possibility to listen to both the VZN 100 and 160's and then your opinion would be highly appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
I would be interested in your bernng when you are ready to sell. please email me. I can probably work around your time frame.
Hi Pep,I've heard the Berning along with my VZN-160s with the Merlins. Honestly, I've never heard the VZN-100s with them. It just happened that a good deal on the 160s popped up on Audiogon so that's the route I went. Unless your room is huge, I might stick with Bobby and go with the 100s and spend the extra money on the Musicwood enclosures rather than the extra power. If as you say the 160s do sound less full in the midbass, that would be the best reason for me to go to the 100s (although I'm not sure how that makes sense--but I'm not a designer :-). Sorry I can't be more help.
nt
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