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I am still working on rebuilding my CD collection; I want to buy the Mahler symphonies that I don't yet have. Please help with Mahler recommendations. Interpretation and sonics are both important to me (have donned flame-proof suit for having said the latter). ;-)Please feel free to enlighten me.
Here is my tentative list
Symphony No.1
James Judd and the Florida Philharmonic
Or
ChaillySymphony No.3
Rattle
Or
Haitink
Or
AbbadoSymphony No.4
Szell
Or
HaitinkSymphony No.6
Karajan
Or
BoulezSymphony No.7
Abbado
Other suggestions ???
Symphony No.8
Inbal
Other suggestions ???
Symphony No.9
Karajan (digital)
Or
HaitinkSymphony No.10 (unfinished)
Rattle on EMI (CDC4 56972-2) with BPO
other suggestions ???
Follow Ups:
Its only too bad he did not record more of the Mahler symphonies. At least we have the 2nd, 4th, 7th, 9th and DLVDE. After Klemperer, my preference runs to Abbado, Walter, Horenstein, Barbirolli and Szell (in that order). As to conductors still performing, Abbado would top my list, followed by Boulez.
nt
which of their performances would you recommend.......i can't think of any off hand.
The late sixties M9 with the Concertgebouw on Philips. I've heard many 9th's, and this one still holds up.
Mostly, anyway. Late 90s digital Haitink's are vastly improved over his wimpy earlier phase. But Mahler? DO you know how absolutely wild authentic Mahler sounded? Just research Mahler's acts as a conductor, and you'll have some idea.The thought of linking Chailly (or Haitink) to Wildman Mahler are like linking Frazier Thomas to Hugh Heffner.
Dear Severius,
What is your "wild" list of Mahler's Symphonies???
nt
i haven't got time for polite mahler by anyone.
is a splendid recording.
i wasn't impressed much by my original cd of haitink's 9th and i hadn't listened to it in a long time. i realize that reviewers had given it good reviews (thats why i bought it). i just find his performance too measured. just for fun i put on this cd again - i still don't like the performance much but more importantly for Bert 2 the sonics seemed compressed and the sound stage narrow. perhaps its been improved in the remastered 24bit edition. have you heard the original CD? after listening to haitink i put on bernsteins 1979 live berlin performance - what a huge difference for me, both sonically and performance wise, small wonder that i don't connect with haitink.
Well, I can often be something of an objectivist when it comes to Mahler, so much of the time I prefer less effusive interpretations. Haitink is clearly much cooler than, say, Bernstein, so he may not appeal to you. Regarding the recording quality, although I haven't heard the original CD issue, this new Philips 50 Remaster sounds excellent -- and I'm a critical listener. I can say this: I replaced at least a dozen original CDs of other Philips recordings with the Philips 50 remasters (including the Richter Sofia Recital and Richter/Rostropovich Beethoven Sonatas)...they are all significant improvements.
4 and 6
I am listening to his DG recording of Mahler's second and, so far, it moves me. Is is too far far from what Mahler would have done?
bert, there's nothing wrong with bernstein's mahler - in fact many people prefer it. i think the problem is in your post. had you asked specifically for a mahler 2 some would swear that bernsteins performance is best and other would have recommended someone else as strongly. thats the nature of mahler. asking for comments on your pre-selections for all symphonies and for other recommendation presents not only a daunting task, but since it appears that you are not familar with mahler enuf, the effort would not be of real value - for you it would only be a consensus. thats why i referred you to my old post wherein i and many others did comment on all nine symphonies. by the way solti is highly regarded as well, just not by me. i have both bernsteins sets but the only one that i think of as a definitive performance is the 1979 live berlin performance of the 9th symphony. i would recommend that you explore his symphonies one at a time and take a few moments to familarize your self with the backgound of mahler and his musical language. it will help you to understanding what your hearing and why. have fun.
My recommendations based on performance and sonics:No. 1: Chailly (Most of Chailly's Mahler is unremarkable, in my opinion, but I really like his 1st. The bass drum in the first movement, which is a crucial moment, is perfect, and the sound is good. The new MTT version is on the way, so that might be a better choice, but I can't yet say.
No. 3: Salonen (Superb sound, super performance.)
No. 4: Rattle (Superb sound, superb performance. I'm slightly less enthusiastic, however, about the soloist, but it's not a deal-breaker.)
No. 6: MTT or Boulez (I don't like Boulez's Mahler, but the 6th is an exception. The Boulez recording has okay sound, but the MTT recording is sonically much better with a performance that's stunning.)
No. 7: MTT (I had trouble "getting" this symphony until I heard the MTT recording.)
I haven't yet found an 8th, 9th or 10th that I'm totally happy with.
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i would have said the recording was stunning - the performers are excellent, the engineers did a great job. i like a little more tension and angst than mtt brings to this performance. but beautiful, yes its all of that.
Declaring that you haven't yet found a Mahler 8 or 9 that you're totally happy with, given the incredible depth of first class recordings by, well, pretty much every great conductor in history is, um, picky :-)
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This is the url for the American Record Guide's 27 page Mahler overview. I've poured over it for several hours, made my choices and have come away a happy camper.
http://www.findarticles.com/cf_0/m1020/4_64/77197429/p1/article.jhtml?term=mahler+overview
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Thanks for that link, Sigmund.I haven't had time to do anything more than very quickly scan the pages on the First Symphony. It did my heart good to see that someone "official" out there in music appreciation land likes the Ancerl Supraphon performance. backtomono had suggested this recording to me a year or so ago, and I have yet to find a version I prefer to it (although I must say that the BRUNO Walter 1954 performance with the NYPO runs a very close second for me).
"We rejected the Dohnanyi and the Ozawa for missing Mahler's spirit entirely-and in Ozawa's case for his general lack of intensity."This is basically going to be Christoph von Dohnanyi's legacy... Well-played performances that lack fire...
BUT...
I have to disagree about the author's brushing aside Dohnanyi's performance of the Mahler One. Although it is not the emotional or lyrical paragon of a Tennstedt or Walter, it **is** maybe the best-played Mahler One on recording... And while he didn't capture the majesty of the work of some others, at least he didn't butcher the work, which is something I cannot say about a lot of Mahler performances. (Although the second movement is a little on the "stiff" side.) And the explosive fanfares, which the auther often cited some perfomances as being understated, will plaster the listener to the wall.
For CD (and for a Cleveland Orchestra recording), the Dohnanyi recording is also excellent. Although a little "Plain Jane" in interpretation, once again, the orchestral execution makes up for it.
I liked it so much, I wanted more like it! So FYI on that site you provided "FindArticles.com" typing in the following EXACTLY in the Search field brings up "nothing but net" -- a clean list of all American Record Guide Overviews:+"american record guide" + overview
Thanks to SE for figuring out how to directly get to the overviews. :->
My pics:1st: Bruno Walter / Columbia Symphony (2 CDs includes 2nd)
2nd: Otto Klemperer / Phiolharmonia Orch.
3rd: Simon Rattle / City of Birmingham Symphony
4th: George Szell / Cleveland Orchestra
5th: John Barbirolli / New Philharmonia Orchestra
6th: George Szell / Cleveland Orchestra
7th: Yoel Levi / Atlanta Symphony
8th: George Szell / Cleveland Orchestra
9th: Bernard Haitink / Royal Concertgebow (2 CDs includes DLVDE)
DLVDE: Otto Klemperer, Christa Ludwig / New Philharmonia Orch.All have,at the very least, good sonics. Yoel Levi does a great job on the seventh, but preferences in Mahler seem to be very personal. After reading some major gushing on Inbal, I bought his seventh; I have never found it very interesting, but I guess that's just me.
7th: Yoel Levi / Atlanta Symphony
"Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?"
I'm not sure what you're inferring. I'm a born again Christian so I'm very familiar with the Scripture.I gave the link in case anyone wanted to buy it cheaper than new (it will eventually go for much more than one cent). I bought at least one ceedee from Marie's. I have Mahler's 1st by Levi/Atlanta on my wish list but I would like to hear it before I buy it. Library doesn't have it.
Jeff
Sorry,
I thought you were making a joke about the value of Levy's performance. I was engaging in witty repartee. No harm meant.
No problem. Let's repartee like it's 1999.
Jeff
second but I lost it with the rest. However, it it can be fun to rebuild a collection.
Paul,
I would agree with the previous responder as to your taste! I am responding to your list because I find it closest to my own. I would agree with your choices on the 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th & DLVDE. I would change the 3rd (Bernstein), 6th (Barbirolli), 7th (Klemperer), 8th (Solti) and 9th (Walter). I would add the Ormandy 10th (Cooke version). Its grown on me over the years, although both Rattle & Wigglesworth are fine.
You are obviously a man of great taste and discrimination, since you chose Klemperer for the 2nd and Barbirolli for the 5th! I have both on both LP & CD and they are extraordinary in every way in both formats.
Symphony 1 - the Abbado/BPO is very good. The new Tilson-Thomas is probably better.Symphony 2 - the Abbado/BPO is magnificent! Clear winner. Also check the Klemperer on EMI Recordings Of The Century series.
Symphony 3 - Rattle all the way.
Symphony 4 - probably Boulez.
Symphony 5 - the Karajan is great.
Symphony 6 - Karajan again, but the Tilson Thomas SFSO new version is incredible.
Symphony 7 - never heard it done really well.
Symphony 8 - maybe Abbado. The old Solti is better.
Symphony 9 - the last Karajan, but it is tough sonically.
.
this is a much discussed composer on this forum. i would suggest that you so a search under mahler. you can also do a search under mahler and list as an author the identity of a member to see what that individual has had to say. for example, to see what my generic recommendations would be to some one coming to mahler for the first time, type mahler. when the list come up go into the advance search screen and under author type newbee. regarding your list, i would consider the szell 4th, karajan 6th, inbal 8th and karajan 9th to be good (read ok) choices, but a long way from being amoungst the best, performance and sonics wise.
I find it difficult to sort through all the broad and sometimes strong opinions. I also hit rec.music.classical.recordings on Usenet
Bert,
The Judd #1 has very good sound but I find the performance lacking compared to my favourite - Solti & LSO (1964). The Solti sounds very fine (a long time vinyl favourite) and is available on the re-mastered Philips Great Performances series. Also it may still be available as a 2CD set with Solti+LSO's #2 (1966) as a 'Double Decca' #448 921-2.
.
also it's an SACD/CD hybrid. Check Hi-Rez for a few casual reviews -
link below
Things I've heard sound very generic to me.
Jeff
I'm pretty new to this symphony stuff, I picked up his Brahm's symphonies but have yet to give them a serious listen.So, Jeff, are you willing to help me avoid the same error again? :-)
I haven't heard much Abbado but what I've heard sounds pretty generic. Don't let me influence you though, I haven't heard much of him.
Jeff
The Abbado/BPO live version is actually very decent. The recording is clean and full-bodied and the live performance is quite exciting. Chailly's recording is perhaps slightly better recorded, but Abbado's is more engaging. Heck, I even like Abbado's version of the 5th. Nothing wrong with it at all. Again, another engaging live recording. Abbado could really get the Berlin strings to play.I'd stay away from the Judd recording if I were you. I found it for $6.99 at Tower and got it, but it really didn't do anything for me.
As for the 6th, one of my favourite recordings is the Chicago Symphony/Solti. This was the absolute very first CD I ever bought and remains a sentimental favourite. The sound is excellent despite its age and the CSO sounds absolutely awesome. This is one of those recordings, where you can pick out the instruments in the orchestra with pin-point accuracy. I just love this CD. I may be wrong here, but I think this was the very first recording that Solti did with the CSO after he became their conductor. The CSO/Solti 7th is another excellent disc. I never quite cared for Solti in his later years, but some of the early stuff he did with Chicago were fabulous, including these Mahler symphonies.
In the 9th, My choices would be either the BPO/Karajan, or the Columbia Symphony/Bruno Walter. The Karajan is recorded better, and it is a fine, fine account. Dutton Labs has reissued the 1938 VPO/Walter account, but I don't think it will meet with your sonic requirements.
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