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Performing the Dvorak 6..... Allan Gilbert (sp?) conducting.... (Never heard of him prior to the broadcast.) At the renovated Severance Hall. Excellent piece to really get a good first impression.....I also cannot believe concert broadcast announcer Robert Conrad is still around. He was doing the broadcasts back when Szell led the Orchestra..... He and Joe Tait....
The sound of the Orchestra, to my surprise, didn't change as much as I expected. It may have even improved since late in Dohnanyi's tenure. (Or a better term would be "recovered".)
The part of the Orchestra that changed the least is the strings. Strings generally have the most continuity, obviously due to the fact there are so many musicians, so the new players tend to play like the ones they replaced. The intonation, while still excellent, isn't the standout it once was. The cohesion, while still there, isn't as good either. But the tone itself has remained intact. Maybe more "lush" than before. (More like Philadelphia, if you will.)
The brass was also a pleasant surprise. Michael Sachs has turned out to be a fine lead trumpet. My original complaint with him, weak attacks, is totally gone. He also plays louder but with less dynamic range than Adelstein. My biggest complaint about Sachs is he doesn't "phrase" the music, just gets the all the notes out. (Which was also was my main complaint about Bud Herseth.) Sachs does not play with the same dynamic range.... Has very good tone.... The brass tends to project too much into the string phrases, as opposed to blending and creating that incredible sound that Cleveland once had. (Note this is like comparing a fine athlete to Michael Jordan or Tiger Woods.)
I personally think the lead trumpet has the single biggest impact on an orchestra's overall "sound", and in retrospect, after hearing that Dvorak performance, a great acid test for "sound", I don't think the Orchestra could have done any better, in regard to a replacement for the great Bernard Adelstein. I actually got an email from a Chicago concertgoer wishing that orchestra had Michael Sachs.
The rest of the brass doesn't quite have the projection it once had. But again, I think what it once had was the best ever.
The winds had the biggest change to the downside. The new players have decent tone, but the once-distinctive articulation is gone. The new oboist lacks attack and articulation. (Although Marc Lifschey and John Mack were maybe the best ever in this regard.) The wind passage in the third movement was one thing that left me longing for the Dohnanyi recording of this work. (Some of the best wind playing ever to make recording.)
The articulation, overall, isn't the same. Although the overall intonation is still well above average. The Orchestra sounds more like a "wall of sound" during crescendos. (It could also be the broadcast or the renovated Severance Hall, which I heard on broadcast for the very first time.) But two distinctive "Cleveland" characteristics remain- The overall "snap" is still there (albeit not on absolute terms), and the overall "sound" is still world-class. The Dvorak 6 performed was a fine one. One would have to dig to find a performance that was significantly better. (Although I say one of them is that Dohnanyi recording.)
A broadcast doesn't really say much, so I shouldn't go overboard here. I'll need to see them live to get the real picture. The Cleveland Orchestra still sounded great, however, through that limited conduit. Maybe not the Orchestra it once was, but it's still a machine of world caliber, in a world where high musical standards have become a rare and precious commodity.
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Two violists playing in unison.I mention this old joke because, at least at the concert I attended in February, the Violas had replaced the Cellos stage left front. Could be the intonation problems right there.
Your other quibbles, articulation and 'wall of sound' on crescendos are definitely the changes in the hall.
For me, John Mack's Oboe and Myron Bloom's Horn shared bellwhether duties with Adelstein's Trumpet. The new oboist is no John Mack, the others are simply workmanlike.
Bright spot in the woodwinds is the Clarinet of Franklin Cohen, a great successor to Robert Marcellus.
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It's a problem simply because it's kind of the "other stringed instrument" in the orchestra (aside from the harp), and not a lot of people aspire to be a "violist"..... Hence the pool of musicians is substantially smaller.... (Unfortunate, because it has a unique sound, in spite of its similar shape. I know William Primrose and Pinchas Zukerman are great violists, but I can't think of anyone else off my head, where I can maybe think of 20 violinists and 10 cellists.)I once heard a joke that's kind of a corollary to yours.... How does a musician best improve his chances to win membership to a symphony orchestra? Dump his current instrument and take up the viola.
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Also, glad that you think so highly of Michael Sachs. A lot of the older players retired and/or died already.How was the first horn? This sound and Adelstein's trumpet defined the Clevelanders in the past.
The horns were OK. Not as articulate as they once were. The brass, as I heard it on that broadcast, may have been a tad "top heavy". (A common trait with American orchestras. The trumpet plays the soft parts too loud.)The new Cleveland sound kind of reminds me of how the Boston Symphony sounded during Ozawa's tenure. I saw the Boston Symphony in concert at Severance Hall. Performed Beethoven's First Symphony and Stravinsky's "Firebird". (People tell me my long-term memory is disgusting.) Two months after experiencing Cleveland do the "Firebird". The main difference being the Boston performance was the full ballet score while Cleveland did the abridged Suite. What struck me, at the time, was what I later learned was "phrasing" and dynamics. Boston had a more "muscular" sound (more like Chicago), was louder, but Cleveland was more dynamic and variation in tonal color. (Several weeks later, an usher at a the BSO concert thought Boston was tuned "sharper" than Cleveland.)
I also recall the Boston having a "split" violin arrangement, with the second violins on the right, playing into the "shell." It was not that popular at the time, like it seems to be now. Cleveland later adopted this arrangement in the midst of Dohnanyi's tenure, and it's been that way ever since. (Welser Moest once said he'd return to the old arrangement, but apparently that never happened.) I personally like the second violins behind the first violins, because the choirs are more distinctive. The chords formed by the strings don't sound as convincing or cohesive in the "split" arrangement, and the second violins almost sound like they're missing altogether. But I've been told that the split sections are preferred in better halls. (Cleveland changed the arrangement around 1992 if I recall. It had nothing to do with the renovation.)
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Even C = 256 (A = 440) is higher than earlier historical precedent, and many orchestras commonly tune to A = 448. Von Karajan reputedly tuned to A = 452!
Back in the days of vinyl, speed variations made it almost impossible to pick out. I got an email several years ago from someone telling me the Cleveland Orchestra tunes sharper than it once did.I personally did not listen for it at the BSO concert. I wasn't aware of this until that discussion with the usher.
Another interesting aspect of this is trumpeter Adelstein, who personally abhorred playing "sharp" relative to the orchestra, where Bud Herseth did so all the time. And that was one thing I *was* able to discern. (It was apparent in those two openings of Mussorgsky's "Pictures" I posted here a while back.) I thought Herseth's sharp tuning became disconcerting at times.
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it seems Cleveland may survive as one of the best in the world, even in spite of these changes. Judging on one concert is less than ideal.Violins are seated as per European way, as opposed to American way, to "bring out" the 2nd voices and counterpoints, etc. That's what I understood in the past.
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Did Bernard Adelstein once play in Minneapolis with Antal Dorati?I was checking out some samples on Amazon, and.....
It sure sounds like Adelstein..... Nobody else plays like this.....
- http://www.amazon.com/gp/music/wma-pop-up/B000AC5AZI001018/ref=mu_sam_wma_001_018/104-2016250-8288711 (Open in New Window)
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great ears, sir. I have been looking around for just such an example. Reiner Pittsburg, Dorati Dallas then Minneapolis, then back to his home town, Cleveland appointed by Szell.I have a patient who played with him in Pittsburg and at that time, they knew Maazel. She was the first oboe, also as a teen. Went to school with Lorin. Her great quote, "he (Reiner) never yelled at me."
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"Violins are seated as per European way, as opposed to American way"I didn't realize they were classified as such. Which is which, may I ask? I'd guess the "European" is the "split" arrangement, because I think Vienna also uses the "split" arrangement..... I never really observed this until recent time.....
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from any of the great Europeans, such as VPO or BPO. Cellos center, violins on the side. Maazel had the cellos right with Geber always on that seat with Majeske on the lead concertmaster seat. I heard Cleveland many times at Severance, same. You posted they changed in 1992.I think that there are advantages to each. Since you turned me on to these videos, I now post one (see others!) from a lovely Sarah Chang. go to Meditation, also.
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I was so fixated on the soloist, I didn't notice the seating arrangement of the musicians...... [-;
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I thought you might like that.I think she's a very winsome and beautiful rep for classical music and I am proud as a fellow Asian of such a young child prodigy and artist, now 26 and "grown up."
Pic from first cd release when she was young. God given talent, but also nurture and hard work.
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sounds like it's still a great orchestra, and the wall of sound issue may be the hall. I visited in 2000 once and it was like that in the back (missed the opening, had to stand in the back under the balcony) during the Schumann 2nd. Sitting 10 th row right of center in the orchestra level, the orchestra sounded different and more articulate. Brahms PC 2, Pollini cond. Dohnanyi.btw, I heard the Schumann 2nd broadcast on KUSC while driving on Sunday, done by the LA Phil. Nice but no where near distinctive performance.
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