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Beethoven's symphonies in historically informed performance? Do they exist? If so which version or versions do you recommend? I'd like to start with symphonies 3, 5, and 7 if makes it easier.Bill Bailey
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Follow Ups:
Yesterday I checked the Bruno Weil / Tafelmusik Symphonies 5 & 6 on Analekta, from my local library; (try before you buy).I checked out the disc on Allmusic and there is a review by by James Leonard. Mr. Leonard doesn't seem to be great HIP enthusiast when it comes to Beethoven. With regard to orchestral sound, he classified three different Beethoven symphony versions:
= Tiny: Hogwood/Academy of Ancient music
= Tinny: Norrington/London Classical Players
= Toy: Weil/TafelmusikHe when on to say this about Weil, " Weil's interpretations are gentle and lyrical but nearly lack power and movement. While this approach is not altogether inappropriate in the Sixth, it is completely wrong for the Fifth. "
Personally I think he must have accidentally swapped disc between the 6th and the 5th. I enjoyed both and no less the 5th which was very dynamic and powerful despite the fairly small, period instruments resource.
Bill Bailey
___________________________________________
See my stereo config
I have four or five, maybe even six, of the Beethoven symphonies by Norrington and the London Classical Players. Haven't listened to them yet. In an interview with Norrington, I very much liked his musical philosophy. Will I like his musical sound? Some of my CDs must be unwrapped - pronto!
nt
Bill Bailey
___________________________________________
See my stereo config
With the Orchestra of the Age of the Enlightenment, an original instruments orch of historical proportions. Fabulous stuff. Some of it is hard to find so I've included a url. www.archivmusic.com has rereleased many formerly out of print classical cds, many at reasonable prices.
- http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/Drilldown?name_id1=21550&name_role1=3&bcorder=3&name_id=858&name_role=1 (Open in New Window)
his Mozart and Haydn was (and is) outstanding. His recordings of Mozart symphonies 36-41 are among the best even made. It's unfortunate that so mant of them are no longer in the catalogue.The trouble with his Beethoven set, however, is the uneveness. Symphonies 2, 3, 5, 8 and 9 come off very well, and are quite competitve with the other HIP versions. Symphonies 4 and 6 are well conceived and played--however, the recording quality in these two is markedly inferior to the rest. Symphony 1 suffers from a too-slow first movement, while No. 7 is curiously lacking in energy.
In all, I can't recommend Bruggen's set as the only one to own, but I would seek individual performances--provided they are still available.
Focused and committed. They get it just right. Fyi, I've only seen it at www.archivmusic after six months of searching.
and you're right, it's wonderful. Many of the top wind players in Europe are (were) in this orchestra.
nt.
I only don't like the over-resonant acoustic.clark
- http://www.cduniverse.com/search/xx/music/pid/1528248/a/Beethoven:+Symphonies+1-9+/+Roy+Goodman,+Hanover+Band,+et+al.htm (Open in New Window)
Complete set for $25 (!!)
Bill Bailey
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See my stereo config
I have Nos. 2, 3, 4, and 5. They give lively and committed performances, well played and and well shaped. Some Nimbus recordings may sound a bit bright on the upper strings with some speakers but should be OK with speakers that handle massed strings well. Unlike Clark, I like the reverberant acoustics on Nimbus recordings--it seems more realistic to me that way.I have Norrington's 9th and I must say he does some wierd things with the tempos. We're doing the 9th on May 12 and I have been going over the choral parts, and the the tempos are just strange, the initial bass solo very fast, the tenor solo quite slow, some of the choral sections slow, too--no sense to it I can detect. Based on that, I'd avoid Norrington.
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"Opposition brings concord. Out of discord comes the fairest harmony."
------Heraclitus of Ephesis (fl. 504-500 BC), trans. Wheelwright.
I'll be checking these out. Price will be a factor -- I'm not keen to buy a complete set until I've sampled.
Bill Bailey
___________________________________________
See my stereo config
The whole HIP thing has had a HUGE impact on Beethoven symphony performance over the past few decades, so that by now, even the "mainstream" interpretors of LvB tend to incorporate some HIP influence. In general, this has meant more adherence to Beethoven's metronome markings, vibrato-free strings, smaller string choirs, frequent use of "hairpin" changes in dynamic levels, and the use of period instruments.If you want to see what a purely HIP Beethoven performance is like, I would recommend Gardiner. He ueses period instruments, adheres strictly to the metronome markings (which means tempos will be much faster than you may be used to), etc. His complete cycle is well worth having, but if you just want to get your feet wet, there's a disc called 'Beethoven: The Revolutionary' that has 3 and 5. The 5's a bit mechanical, IMO, but the 3's very good. I would rate Gardiner the best of the fully HIPs.
An even better Beethoven interpretor, however, is Harnoncourt, who uses many of the ideas of HIP (a 'movement' he helped to found) but isn't as doctrinaire about it as Gardiner--ie, there is more flexibility in the tempos, and he uses a mix of modern and period instruments. Though the vibrato-free strings and quick tempos will throw some people, I find H's cycle very convincing, and would rate it one of the best of the past couple decades.
Other than Bruggen, none of the other strictly HIP folks are of much interest to me--Norrington and Hogwood I would avoid.
Hogwood's set is a lot more edgy / 18C sounding, timbre wise.the Norrington set is a LOT more wilful and driven than either in places, one or two stand outs.
WarmestTimbo in Oz
The Skyptical Mensurer and Audio ScroungerAnd gladly would he learn and gladly teach - Chaucer. ;-)!
'Still not saluting.'
If you want to 'ease' into HIP Beethoven, start with Harnoncourt. Its 'informed' (influenced) by, but not replications of original performances of his symphonies. Personally I think a lot of the replacements of the original instruments is a good thing. Just a POV, probably unshared by you HIPers! Where do you buy your hair shirts anyway? :-)
Don't know if this is what you had in mind when you say "historically informed performances", but Christopher Hogwood and the Academy of Ancient Music did all 9 (plus Egmont and Coriolan overtures) about 20 years ago. On "period" instruments and, according to the pamphlet that came with it, using "performance practices of Beethoven's time". I have have the set and love it.Available on CD or (some of them) on LP (but digital mastering).
rlindsa - new vinyl freakThere are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and cats. (Albert Schweitzer)
...but I don't personally know them well enough to say yea or nay.
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