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Behringer Digital Crossover Prelimenary review.I would prefer to call this an initial and preliminary review - While I have tried to be balanced, I believe a proper review is best done when you have lived with something for quite a while. I also think that a review is best done when the only change that has been made is the item you are reviewing in some sort of A - B comparison so you can make clear comparisons or at least with a system you are familiar with. The Nakamichi CA1 I had been using for a preamp died a week or so ago - so part of that will never come to pass. With a new preamp 12b4 TVC preamp almost done, and I'm gather parts for another amp so the system will be in a state of flux for some time
Caveat - I am using as preamp a Phillips receiver that was an early "surround sound" long before 5.1, I've had it so long I can't remember how long and it is not what anyone would consider "audiophile" by any stretch of the imagination.
Let's get to the review - I'll put associated equipment and info at the bottom. I would also like to state that the purpose of this review is for the use of this equipment as a digital crossover for home audio use and not for _pro_ use.
Name of the unit is Behringer Ultradrive Pro DCX2496 - Behringer prints across the unit
Professional Loudspeaker Management system.http://www.behringer.com/02_products/prodindex.cfm?id=DCX2496&lang=eng
The unit was $325.00 including freight, from http://smproductionsinc.zoovy.com. I have no affiliation with SMProductions. I will say it was the best price I could find and they shipped quickly.
The unit is a rack mount _Pro_ stlye crossover whose nearest equivalent that I am aware of is the BSS FDS-336 MINI DRIVE LOUDSPEAKER MANAGEMENT SYSTEM which sells for approximately $1250 new in the US. Nemo at AA has made some posts about digital crossovers and when I asked him about the BSS unit he suggested I consider this unit.
Short version of features - for the long version click on the link above -
Basically you punch in selectable crossover points, standard slopes up to 48DB, your choice of Butterworth, Bessel, or Linkwitz, auto time alignment/delay and a good bit of EQ options along with a certain amount of level matching - It was the time/alignment and delay that sold me on giving this a try.
Hook-up - In keeping with it's _pro_ designation this unit uses xlr (balanced) connectors. Well, you've probably got to do some soldering, becauseI couldn't easily find XLR to RCA conncectors, so I went to Radio Shack and bought 2 mike cables and 2 pair each of male and Female XLR connectors and soldered them to the ends of several pairs of the old monster rca interconnects I had laying around.
Impedance mismatch was something I had been concerned about because of the differences in pro and home audio, but there has been no apparent problem.
Setup was a breeze - for Phil anyhow - he set it up smoothly in about 1/4 the time I would have. Phil brought a signal generator, and 3 band per octave Real Time Analyzer and he brought a very acute pair of ears - Phil spent about 5 or 10 minutes reading the manual (something on he learned on the way to getting his EE degree probably prompted this reading of the manual stuff) and the user interface was a breeze for him. During setup Phil made several remarks along the line of "you mean they've got _automatic_ time alignment with this thing"? Phil tweaked a couple of db in several places but we made no attempt at room EQ or time alignment because of time conflicts.
Listening - This unit is really good - essentially transparent - beautiful integration with the subs.The sound seems a good bit more coherent overall even in the mid and higher octaves presumably because the higher crossover point is taking the lower end stress off of the driver.
There seems to be a slight lack of depth of soundstage which I can readily attribute to the inadequate preamp and the fact that I didn't have my silver interconnects in the system, because they're hardwired into my new tube preamp which isn't quite ready. I had noticed before that the silver interconnects seemed to add depth and lift a slight veil when they were in the system. Possivly the time alignment will help some also. The Behringer unit is obviously doing the job for me very,very well.
As fas as I'm concerned it's a definite keeper.
Summary.
The ability to match levels of amps and speakers, along with variable crossover points, slopes, types, and to time align while doing this in the digital domain make this unit outstanding for the money. I won't be in the slightest surprised if you start seeing a number of these units used in home audio as a digital crossover because this is an excellent solution to more than one or two problems.
Listening to the music tells me that whatever the Behringer imparts to the music in a negative manner it more than makes up for by the problems that it solves better than other solutions.
As Nemo mentioned to me in discussions prior to my purchase, a true pro audio person that makes their living on the road or in front of a mixing console will probably look at this unit with disdain - the construction and various mechanical functions do not appear to be heavy-duty enough to hold up well to life on the road or in a full fledged _Pro_ environment. However, construction is far more than adequate for a set it, forget it, and tweak now and then crossover.
Many people of my generation have never truly learned to program their VCR. I usually do pretty good with stuff like that but have to think about it - I'm really glad Phil was here and did the setup. I wouldn't have finished until the next day sometime - It's not really that hard to set up. However, it's not really what I would say easy either - If you have trouble programming your VCR you would do best to have a "PHil" who does pro-audio on the side lined up. Unless you can't program your VCR you should be able to do it without "Phil" and without a RTA - but it's going to take a bit of tweaking and careful listening to get it right. With the RTA Phil dialed it in so quick I was surprised.
Associated equipment
Source = Sony C555ES SACD
Pre-interconnects= Pure Silver Sound
Preamp = Preamp out section of Phillips FR880 receiver
All other
interconnects= Radio Shack and almost discarded Monster Cable
digital crossover= Behringer Ultradrive Pro DCX2496
Amp for Mid-Hi = VAC 30/30
Cables for Mid-Hi= Pure Silver Sound Octets
Mid-Hi- speakera = Azurahorns - 1 metre Fibreglass horns with fostex FE206E drivers
Amp for subs = Crown Com-Tech 410 - 225 wpc (recent ebay purchase)
Subs = NHT1259's in Madisound approx 3 liter sealed cabsMisc = Crossover point of 172 hz 4th order Butturworth with inverted phase - Initially the sound stage was some what collapsed and lacking depth, Phil inverted phase and Viola there it was. I had thought that we were setting up LR 4th order but at some point The unit defaulted to Butturworth ( or we did). It sounded so good we just left it.
Power filtration consists of one Powervar 12 plugged into another Powervar 12.
Music used
Dire Straits = Sultans of swing - the Very Best of Dire Straits
Getz/Gilberto = reengineered from 1963 SACD
Willie Nelson = Stardust SACD
Brassed Off = Movie SoundtrackI usually listen to a good bit of classical but apparantly wasn't in the mood on this day.
I had planned to wait until I had more listening time but am going to be pretty busy for a while and thought I might put it off too long and not make the post.
If anything of import comes up I will add to this or make a post of such.
Regards
Ken L
Follow Ups:
If you did, which one?
Magnetar
Didn't have anything to compare it to. Not even a previous crossover in that configuration that was close to the correct crossover point -
That and the other reasons I stated in the intitial post were enough of a concern that I debated about posting even a limited preliminary review. I went ahead with what I had because it is a new item and I have seen almost no info posted about it.I figured it would be better to go ahead and get some info out that the unit was out there at such a low cost.
The day I was going to finalize the order of a Marchand XM46 passive line-level crossover Nemo told me about this and I went ahead and got one.
Hopefully, I'll get a proper preamp in the system soon and know a little more.
Later
Thanks, IME much of what you describe sonically also applies to an analog electronic crossover. The Behringer is totally cool in it's ultra adjustable and has delay. Sure like to try one (risk free) in my system some day.
Magnetar
nt
Hey Triodeuser,I wonder if you have any further comments on the Behenger crossover? It would seem it has all the bells and whistles, but I am wondering about the sonic purity and transparency. Do you have a further handle on that one? I did have the use of a Yamaha unit whose model number escapes me now; it was a one-bit unit that cost about $2,500 new, I believe. It sounded quite good I thought. I have read some comments about there being some hiss out of the tweeter section, have you noticed any noise?
I have done some extensive work on speaker system design, passive crossover design and cable design, with some spectacular results. Unfortunely I never found my designs to be what I would consider marketable, but the sonic results topped all reference cables I could lay my hands on. This whole subject is too complex to get into here. I will say that I have attended about 10 CES shows in Las Vegas and Chicago and about 5 AES shows over the years, so I think I know what sounds good.
Any more comments you might have about the unit would be appreciated as I am considering building a new A/V system here at the house in the country.
Thanks,
I will share with you and others what I shared with someone privately by e-mail - due to the fact that there are a lot of if's I did not think it appropriate to include even in a preliminary review or in a thread about the review because I think any poster making a review should go to lengths to ensure accuracy, balance and factual info -big caveat that these are what I _think_ and not what I know -and a reminder of previous caveats that I am unfamiliar with the preamp which is only one step from being a yard sale item. and that my most revealing interconnects aren't in the system and all which those two facts might possibly entail. This should also be tempered with the fact that the subs previously could not cross over high enough to integrate proper, etc. There simply have been too many changes for me to say much with certainty of fact
Also, I can't hear over 7 or 8K and the guy that helped me set it up couldn't hear over 12k or so I can't say what is happening above that but I was impressed with how quickly he heard what was going on and he heard no noise or distortion.
With all of those caveats said_big grin_
Short version - If you are more than mildy interested you should probably buy one. These things are well worth the money and potential risk - making the assumption that further use shows no problems
While I know there has got to be something - I hear absolutely no artifacts or distortion and usually will go nuts over slight distortion.
My best guess is that this will be the first successful unit of it's type to enjoy somewhat limited use within the audiophile community. It is so good that I think even a number of the analog guys will use them, eventually - although it won't surprise me if acceptance is slow
It is one of the three biggest things I have ever done for my system, the other two being Azurahorns and silver interconnects.
I am grinning from ear to ear at how good it sounds with a ten year old consumer type of pre and almost thrown away interconnects. I changed the speaker leads to the 4 ohm tap and most but not all of the remaining sound stage came in - what I am now missing is merely a _hint_ that if I were not familiar with the horns and source CD's would be probably be unnoticable by almost anyone -
EQ at 401hz of 3db with a q of 2.5
and 2730hz of 3db with a q of 2.0 and virtually seamless integration of the subs combine to make things more open, smooth and airy and enjoyable - while I know there must be some sonic penalties apparantly they are overwhelmed by advantages - If someone had told me my setup would sound this much better by putting this in the system I doubt if I would have believed them. without doubt some of these things are due to rolling the full range off higher - but if there are any negative aspects of the unit I am quite sincerely unable to hear it at this time - and I am picky as hell and would say any problems in a heartbeat -this was the first setup and I am impressed at the abilities of my friend that set it up - however, I will be surprised if further tweaking doesn't make noticable improvements, along with improvements in improved preamp and cabling - I have hopes of even better sound -
The problem in making statements at this time is I don't _know_ what will happen then and it wouldn't be the first time some problem reared it's head under other circumstances - I knew that it would be better if I posted the review at a later date - but I knew that if I waited I would never make the post -
If any problems or negativies arise I will post them without hesitation.
Feel free to e-mail me if you wish - and I'll put you in my address book and if I can remember, will let you know if any problems arise -
Later
28.5" tall x 15.5" wide x 18" deep.93.4 liters 3.4 cubic feet - after subtracting for mdf
thanks for being sharpeyed and pointin that out - I probably was trying to remember 3 cubic feet
Later
"Subs = NHT1259's in Madisound approx 3 liter sealed cabs" That is some really really small subs :) FYI that is less than a gallon.
A liter is a cubic decimeter (1/10 of a meter) a liter of water is 1 Kg
Going up 1000 fold we get
1000 liter is a cubic meter and if water weigh a ton, that is 1000 kg
Going down 1000 fold
one cubic centimeter is a milli liter and if water it weigh one gram.The rellation between cubic feet, gallons and fluid ounces are not multiples of 10 (or anything else for that matter)
Thanks. Did you use the digital in? Am seriously considering getting one of these.
I'm trying to build a collection of SACD's and don't think it works with that, although I'm not certain of that. I also intend to use this setup as my front two in 5.1 HT.So I figured that somewhere in that mix I would have compatability problems,
Later
Hello,I just ordered two of these units a few days ago, I will install them on a 4 way horn loaded Jadis monitoring in our studio when I return from hollidays. A few comments :
1. Price vs quality. It is true that among Pro audio Behringer is regarded as Home studio equipment and that some of their analog outboard is not the best you can get. Actually I never bought any of their gear until the DCX2496 for that reason. Now when comparing to BSS ( or others SONY, XTA, Rane, ...) you have to consider that BSS units are around for 2 or 3 years and that in this field things go fast and newer technology is always getting better and cheaper. Secondly to cut price down Behringer have made the choice of rather limited DSP power which means that you won't be able to use all features at the same time ( many filters + many EQ + dynamics ...). I beleive this is something many people here can live with. So altogether comparing features to price this units is a steal.
2. Input level. This is very important. This unit has a 24 bits 96 kHz D/A converter at the input. On pro units analog reference level to 0 dBFs digital is commonly +15 or +18 dBU. This is a lot more than what many consumer units output. If the input is too low then conversion will use only a part of the available scale and the sound will be degraded. So to get the best of this kind of unit you need to have enough level at the input and ideally not reduce it ,which means that the best solution is to have a multi channel volume control on the output of the Behringer and keep input level unchanged.
3. You are right you won't be able to keep SACD digital all the way. SACD is higher sampling rate and anyway SACD players currently don't have any kind of digital outputs for SACD stream (firewire should come ). So you will have to use the analog inputs of the behringer for SACD but for CD you can use the AES EBU input of the behringer by connecting it to the digital output of your CD/SACD player. Many SACD/CD players such as Phillips 967SA ouput CD in digital SPDIF upsampled up to 24/192. This would avoid one D/A and one A/D stages so should definitely be better.
Hope that helps.
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