|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
66.157.51.189
Hard to find a lot of information. Are these models improvements over the older model for sound quality. The other higer-end P models are out of my price range so I'm only interested in the DV-60 or DV-50.
Follow Ups:
I'm considering either the Esoteric SA 60 or Ayre C-5xe for stereo audio, plus either a Pioneer or Sony Blu-ray unit for video. Has anyone compared the SA 60 and C-5xe? I listened to my cousin's SA 60 for several hours, and was very impressed with its smooth yet detailed sound and deep soundstage.
I did not see any video hookups on the back.thanks
nt
They are the same less the video outputs in the SA-60, but it still plays DVD-A, DAD, and the DVD video soundtrack. The lack of video in the SA-60 may be a positive thing given there will be no interference with the audio so if you don’t need video go for the SA-60.Both DV-60 and SA-60 are very well built; use top-notch Sony digital audio DSP, latest flagship Crystal DACs and the newly developed VOSP transport. It’s not VRDS-NEO but still very good and reliable.
Regards,
Alex
It should be available very soon and is about $1100 less than the SA-60. It uses the CS4398 DAC and VOSP transport. Thanks.
Would like to know if you would be offering a mod package for this player anytime soon?
dusted,Why would you imagine Mr. Peychev could do better than TEAC? Would it be by replacing any parts TEAC used to meet a price point? Surely TEAC has design and engineering talent equal to Mr. Peychev's.
Any mass produced device is a result of a number of compromises, the craftsman who makes one offs has a lot more freedom, the end result has less to do with talent than a fewer number of compromises. Alex can give individual attention to each unit leaving his shop, while TEAC cannot. Based on your assesment one should never mod anything :-)
dee,Your conclusion of my assessment is inadequate. The components of most commercial products must be selected to meet a price point. A modder can reverse those compromises by upgrading where the OEM selected a lower grade part. Another type of mod can be the use of a component with newer or improved technology, most likely a later DAC. What I doubt is the prowess of a modder to substitute his design or engineering skills for those of the OEM. If you have ever visited a Sony lab and exchanged ideas with their scientists, you know they can attract top talent, talent unlikely to be available to a modder.
heavy duty cost accountants, and "we have always done it this way so why should we change?" chains of command.The SONYSCD-1SCD-777ES machines use a absolutely hideous design for their audio output section using 11 opamps per channel!
Is this the result of the genius "top talent" who developed the SACD processing technology? No - it was lifted connection by connection, component by component from a Burr-Brown Application Note AB-206) that is part of their 1994 Applications handbook - but may well have been written well before that!
IMO, too muchtop-down control...
< < lifted connection by connection, component by component from a Burr-Brown Application Note > >Not only the big Japanese majors practice this type of intellectual laziness. The so-called "Adaptive Biasing" that Levinson uses in their big power amps was taken directly from a 1981 AES paper written by (of all people!) the engineers from Sansui!
But to my way of thinking, the mere fact of using an op-amp for an audio circuit is another example of this mindset. Effectively the designer is saying "I can't design a better circuit than this." While this may hold true for cost-sensitive applications where sonic performance doesn't matter, it is a bit embarrassing when it comes to a so-called "high-end" product.
To make a statement suggesting that Sony or TEAC have any advantage in retaining the best scientific or engineering talent is ludicrous. Where I work, in Silicon Valley, many of the best engineers and scientists are not interested in working for a company like Sony. Nor are they interested in working for NASA, Lockheed Martin, etc., etc. A university, perhaps.Alex worked at Sony and left in part because he was disgusted with the way their cost cutting measures (read: profit maximizing) were compromising their products.
Sony, TEAC, etc. design their products for a particular price level and profit margin. They voice their products in a particular way as well. Alex redesigns players taking a cost-no-object approach. IMO, what sets Alex apart is his ear for the sound he wants to obtain in his designs and his ability to reach his goals. (I say this because Alex and I agree on sound, but I'm certainly not alone in this.) Part of Alex's success -- and that of other modifiers -- is derived from hours and hours of obsessive experimentation with different variations in design. I think it is safe to say that Sony, TEAC, etc. just don't go to those lengths. Finally, if they designed a player like Alex, the BOM would be much, much higher.
But it sounds like your statements are based merely on conjecture, not on real experience or actual knowledge.
So every bright engineer must work for Sony, or Teac, or some other large corporation? No lone wolfs, or geniuses are allowed to operate out in the wild? Innovation only comes from large institutions? Why should that be the rule? If that was true, I could only make progress if I worked for IBM or soem other industrial Giant. Nobody should be interested in my expertise, because I am not branded by some big corporation, I could never design a better system? And also a large corporation may not pay as much to an employee what one can get on the open market, perhaps developing new products. I would not under any circumstances underestimate the talent available to an enterprising fellow :-). It all depends on the aspirations of that talent. How do you think startups attract talent?
...for *Positive Feedback Online.* Indeed, I am listening to the terrific Stockfish SACD, *The Spirit of Gambo,* via the DV-60 right now. (If you love cello, you really should get this SACD; the Gambo is a marvelous instrument, particularly when accompanied by harpsichord. I listen to it regularly.)I'll be writing my comments up in PFO, but I can say that my initial take on the DV-60 is very favorable. It doesn't have the exceptional VRDS transport of the upper regions of the Teac Esoteric line, but then again, neither does it sport a price tag in that region, either. And while it is not a VRDS, the DV-60's transport engine has been very solid and has operated flawlessly during the several months that I have had it. With its available Native DSD mode (good move!) and PCM -> DSD conversion option (a la the EMM Labs line...another good move!), plus switchable PCM filtering for Red Book, the user has a good deal of flexibility available. Best of all, the sound is quite pleasant to my ears, without some of the PCM glare that DSD -> PCM SACD playback only players exhibit.
Not only that, but it will handle your DVD videos and DVD-A's, as well. Thus far, I've seen no compatibility issues; DVD-A's read up just fine.
I hope this helps you. More detailed comments and product photos will follow at PFO.
All the best,
Right? Is that what you mean?
VRDS stands for something. (I forget what, exactly. Maybe "Vibration Rigid Damping System".) Basically it means that there is a clamping disc that covers the entire top surface of the disc. Teac has made many variations on this theme over the years. The "Neo" part refers to the latest generation that will play DVDs and SACDs, and not just CDs (unlike the earlier VRDS mechanisms used in the Wadias, for example).The DV-60 does not have any variation of the VRDS system. Instead there are just one or two things that distinguish it from a run-of-the-mill transport:
a) It has a metal loading tray. Since the tray does not touch the disc during play, this probably has next to zero effect on sonic performance.
b) It *may* have some sort of improvement to the suspension of the laser. Normally the laser is suspended on some thin lead-out wires that are connected to "voice-coil" actuators. These actuators control the motion of the laser in both an up-and-down direction (to maintain the proper focal distance) as well as an in-and-out motion (to follow the imperfectly concentric spiral of data pits on the disc). It's hard to be sure, as it's only been written in "marketing speak" (translated from Japanese, no less!), but apparently Teac is claiming that this laser is held more rigidly in one axis so that it maintains its perpendicularity to the disc better than a normal suspension. However, I am not 100% clear if they are actually claiming this or not, nor whether it makes any substantive performance improvement or not.
"Best of all, the sound is quite pleasant to my ears, without some of the PCM glare that DSD -> PCM SACD playback only players exhibit."David,
In my experience, PCM well done has no glare whatsoever. May be you are referring to the older Esoteric line where the DSD was converted to 88.2/24 which, IMO, is insufficient if best sonics are desired.
Which playback units are you referring to when you speak of "PCM well done has no glare whatsoever," Alex? Perhaps I have not heard what you have heard...that could well be.I have heard the older Esoteric line, and yes, that's the sort of thing that I have in mind when I speak of "PCM glare." Clearly that sampling rate is insufficient, I would agree with you there.
I've heard/reviewed a lot of digital playback systems, but still have real reservations about DSD -> PCM playback methods, and have not yet heard anything that I would describe as "no glare whatsoever." The EMM Labs SE line remains at the top of the heap for me.
Let me know if there are devices that I am unaware of.
Regards,
How about dCS gears like P8i ? I found the sound exceptional clean and dynamics which is way better than the players with DSD -> PCM conversion ?
I haven't had dCS gear in my listening room since the days of the Purcell/Elgar combo for Red Book, Kenny. PFO's Dr. Sardonicus spent some time with the dCS P8i, though; you'll find his comments at the link below.Since I haven't listened to dCS personally in a number of years, and have never heard their SACD playback, I can't really comment on it.
Regards,
david
| ||||||||||||
|
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors: