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Well it finally looks like there is a player that that will relegate my Sony SCD-1 to storage.But not until I can hear it in my system.
Follow Ups:
I listened to one at a local fellow's house for a few hours. I was unfamiliar with his system, but I was dissapointed with the sound of the EMM. It was easily outclassed by a couple of modified players.That said, I have no idea how many hours the EMM had on it. After reading all of the hype I guess I just got my expectations too high, hence the dissapointment.
Now there's nothing to do but wait for the next digital savior.
Could it be the Wadia 581? I haven't heard it, but there is a lot of buzz about it. I best not get my hopes up.
I heard it a friend's house recently, and he's loaning it to me so I can do an A-B against my modified Esoteric in my system. Actually, I wasn't that impressed, given all the hype. And I'm not alone: A couple of fellow audiophiles I correspond with didn't care for it, either. I thought my friend's GNSC-modded Wadia 861 beat it convincingly, particularly in the dynamics department. The Wadia was slightly more resolving as well. I agree with PFO that Meitner has eliminated that little "edge" that plagued earlier EMM designs, but, frankly, I was expecting more. It refused to play two discs, and I thought it could've sounded more open. I agree with Allen Wright: I think a series of well-chosen mods executed on a fundamentally sound platform like your SCD-1 can outpace even the Mighty Meitner. I'm sold on the efficacy of modding.
Who modified your Esoteric player and what was done to it? I didn't see any of that info in your AA system info.BTW: I agree with what you say about mods. I've heard the CDSA and must say APL's mods to the Esoteric players (and even the Denon 3910) are much more convincing in recreating the sound of a bona fide musical event.
Kyle at Reference Audio Mods (RAM) did the mods. I just reviewed it here a few days ago, and my thoughts are right below this thread. I list the high points of the work in the review.You're like the fourth person, not including me, I've encountered who didn't care for the CDSA. A lot of people seem to be going ga-ga over it, though, so go figure.
With my experience with RAM's work, I'm now FIRMLY on the mod bandwagon. It offers a truly viable alternative to the ever-escalating prices of a lot of high-end gear.
Sorry -- should have seen your review below.I heard a CDSA in my own system but it didn't have many hours on it and it had that "hard" sound I attribute to not being broken in enough. Still, my APL-modified Denon 3910 (also with very low hours on it) handily beat the CDSA in terms of recreating the drama, scale and involvement of real, live music. Compared to the APL Denon, the Meitner was a bit sterile & uninvolving, leaving the listener feeling somewhat detached from the event. The CDSA only bettered my Denon in terms of a more precise depth-wise delineation of instruments within the soundstage. But the APL-modified Esoteric players posses this characteristic, plus an even more palpable, lifelike sound.
Having said all this, I believe the Meitner is not the best match for my system. A while back I heard a Meitner setup consisting of Tenor (tube) amps and high-end Kharma speakers that sounded great. It still lacked the degree of involvement and realism that I attribute to Alex's designs but it sounded wonderful all the same.
you are getting into a bit of argument with yourself :-). At this level we are talking about minute nuances and preferences. Will you give up involvement for precision? I would not, but some others may feel the same about precision. Of course we want both, but at what cost? So how much of either will that money buy you will make you buy one or the other. I remember having this same discussion with Bob Crump at Musikmike's house, and it sounded like that old miller light commercial. "Tastes great! No, less filling!" There is no real answer to this because either one of the approaches can get you closer to a live performance experience except you are talking about different seats in the same hall.dee
;-D
True terror is to wake up one morning and discover that your high school class is running the country.Kurt Vonnegut
Of course, nothing is cut & dried in this hobby but I can easily say the heightened involvement provided by Alex's designs compared to anything else I have heard is far from subtle. But what I was trying to say is that, to my ears, Alex's NWO 2.5 is just as precise sounding as the Meitner, while at the same time providing an even more involving musical experience than my APL Denon.
I know.
According to your System page, your Denon was modified by ALP HiFi. ;-)
And I think I chose with my ears wide open, but i admit i prefer that enveloping i am there big sound vs, being able to count the teeth of a singer in an ice cave. But if i can still count teeth i am happy camper. (There is a reason why i love my ESLs.) I know your taste in sound if you prefer Alex's design over others. The reason I brought up Bob Crump (I still miss the big guy) Because he had a different perspective on what is good sound. For Bob PRECISION was paramount even if at the expense of involvement, if in Bob's sound-stage you could not locate a singer down to seven decimal points Bob was not happy. Of course some of his designs turned out to be involving, but the ones that were not, were still ultra precise. Alex on the other hand designs things that are always musically involving, and some of them are very precise as well. As those two philosophies converge, one makes financial decisions.dee
;-D
True terror is to wake up one morning and discover that your high school class is running the country.Kurt Vonnegut
When I attend a live performance I cannot normally pinpoint the precise location of instruments in an arrangement down to seven decimal points, as you say, but I've encountered such precision in some hi-fi system. This could be more of a result of multi-mic recording & mixing than anything else, however. And on some systems I consistently hear high frequency instruments more forward in the soundstage and lower frequency instruments farther back. Is that better 3D imaging or some kind of phase issue, or simply my ears playing tricks on me? Lots of variables involved.BTW: I wasn't being skeptical; I was merely making a joke since you had a typo in the name of Alex's company.
...for a fraction of the price of the Meitner package.Regards, Allen
HowdyI haven't heard your latest work, but many modders make such claims and my experience is that they are at best just different than the EMM Labs gear when done and not necessarily better. None have come close to my ears, but I know people who definitely like some of the modded players better.
-Ted
True. That is an option that I have been considering.
...package, but would dearly love to as I once had a seven hour technical discussion with Ed Meitner and I respect his technical knowledge and obvious skills.Please note this post is not a plug for my own work alone - more for the work of a number of us who do very well thought out and reviewed upgrade/modification work on these wonderful and very cost effective machines from SONY.
To have one of them put "in storage" because of something new arriving just seems wrong to me. If you decide against exploring it's full potential, at the very least sell it to someone who is hunting for one - they are becoming very hard to find now, and it should go a good home where it will be fully appreciated.
Regards, Allen
Appreciate your comments Allen and getting my SCD-1 modded will be my most likely course of action.Actually I love the way my SCD-1 sounds sans mods, but when I decide to play vinyl, well it just blows the SCD-1 out of the water. I would like to close the gap.
My only reason for storage would be for potential future use and I do believe the SCD-1 is a classic.
My SCD-1 (stock 1999 vintage, repaired in 2003) is plugged into my system right next to my EMM Labs multi-channel dac and player. Except for making "obligatory" comparisons with the EMM Labs early on the SCD-1 has been inactive for almost two years. I eventually plan on selling it.
Robert C. Lang
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