|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
219.77.36.4
Mr Hansen; in case you would design a new SACD player, please add the following features :1. digital inputs : AES, coaxial, optical, that can accept 24/96
2. all digital input signals can be upsampled to DSD if wish
3. sound level same for all formatsCD is almost done done, and except classical music, there won't be anymore pop SACD's, while Blu-ray, HD-DVD, can all have high resolution PCM tracks (which is far better than a CD). So it is best to have 1-box player that can play SACD/CD while decoding the PCM tracks from Blu-ray movies/concerts or even DVD-A (for the mega bucks pre/amp 2-channel system rather than an AV amp). I cannot understand why most SACD players do not have digital inputs, nor for the very few that has, they don't upsample. I cannot believe dCS' P8i can handle only 24/48. My 6-year old Accuphase SACD player can do all those, but I have been looking for a change.
Follow Ups:
< < 1. digital inputs : AES, coaxial, optical, that can accept 24/96 > >The problem here is mainly cost. The basic signalling format these use (biphase-mark encoding) is flawed from the get-go. You can arbitrarily improve the performance by throwing money at the problem. But to get really good sound from this type of input would increase the cost of a player by a significant fraction of the overall price.
The bottom line is that you can't make something that will please everyone. Most people wouldn't use this feature, and wouldn't want to pay a lot of extra money for something they wouldn't use.
< < 2. all digital input signals can be upsampled to DSD if wish > >
This is a red herring. Please remember that "DSD" is a marketing term and not a technical term. "Upsampling" is also a marketing term and not a technical term. So "upsampling to DSD" doesn't mean anything in particular, just whatever any particular marketing department decides it means on any particular day.
Besides, almost all modern DAC chips use some sort of sigma-delta architecture that essentially *does* "upsample to DSD". This is especially true of the cheaper chips. It's not clear to me what the goal is here, besides saving money for the chip maker.
< < 3. sound level same for all formats > >
I assume you are referring to the fact that output level on the Ayre C-5xe is 6 dB lower when playing SACDs compared to CDs or DVDs. This was done because of the four filters available in the Burr-Brown DSD1792 chip we use, the one that sounds the best has a lower output level.
We figured that anyone who cares about SACD in the first place would want to get the best sound out of it. But if you would rather have matched levels than the best sound, there is an undocumented feature on the player. On the rear are a bank of DIP switches. Change the third switch in the right bank from "Reserved C" (up) to "Reserved D" (down). This will select a filter that will boost the output level for SACD to nearly match the PCM level.
< < CD is almost done done > >
Disagree. I think CD will be the dominant music format for at least another decade. (Assuming that we audiophiles are not including MP3 as an acceptable format.)
< < Blu-ray, HD-DVD, can all have high resolution PCM tracks > >
Yes, but I don't think we will ever see any music released in either of these formats.
< < My 6-year old Accuphase SACD player can do all those > >
My understanding is that many, if not all, of the Accuphase SACD players convert the "DSD" to PCM.
"The bottom line is that you can't make something that will please everyone. Most people wouldn't use this feature, and wouldn't want to pay a lot of extra money for something they wouldn't use.
"We may not see any BluRay or HDDVD music disks any time soon but we will likely see more of DualDisk. Having a digital input is becoming a selling factor for audiophile who wants to have a one box player and a decent playback from his dvds or computer playback.
nt
Mr Hansen how about a stand alone DAC from AYRE? (with USB) I agree that CDs will be a dominate format for the near term future, but when I come home from work I might like to hear Folk Alley or another internet station and not put on a CD. mmmm maybe an Ayre tuner? BTW I really enjoy my 7xe player!!!
What is your take on this ?Thanks
Two reasons we don't offer one:a) Contrary to most people's experience (either they don't hear a difference, or they find that the correct polarity varies from recording to recording), I have found a different experience. The first time I had a system that was resolving enough to tell when one polarity was correct and the other was wrong, I listened to about 25 different discs. They all sounded best with the system in the *same* (correct) polarity. So I think it makes a difference, but not necessarily from recording to recording.
I'm sure I'll take a lot of heat for this, but that's what I heard. And maybe I'm wrong, so I reserve the right to change my mind in the future.
2) The entire idea of a polarity switch is completely antithetical to what we are trying to achieve with our products. The idea is to go home after a hard day's work, turn on the stereo and "bliss out". No muss, no fuss.
But to add a polarity switch is like spiking someone's drink with LSD -- it's just a way to introduce neurosis (if not psychosis!). Instead of enjoying the music, now you have to sit and listen intently to each track on every disc you own, flipping the switch back and forth until you are sure which way is "correct". Then write down the "correct" setting in some notebook so that the next time you listen to the disc you can study the notebook and make sure the switch is in the "correct" position.
And that's just for CD. For analog sources, there is no way to add a polarity switch without degrading the sound quality. Then you are doubly screwed.
No thanks. I don't want any part of that insanity. If you do, that's fine, you should probably just buy somebody else's equipment.
CharlesThanks for your honest reply and participation.
I am still a novice to all of this, but I have very resolving speakers (Magie 20.1s) and hope soon to upgrade to your C5xe.
I don't know what I'm missing (or not) since I have never gotten to play with this feature, but thought it sounded "cool", until you read that many of the bigger maggies are out of phase between the base and mid/tw panels anyway - so unsure if I could even hear it.
I value your responses ad approach to music, so I wondered what was your take.
"The idea is to go home after a hard day's work, turn on the stereo and "bliss out". No muss, no fuss."
I AGREE !!!!!
Thanks
Wrong, but perfectly understandable :-)I didn't ask for a system that displays polarity differences so audibly. But I've got one, and when I hear something in the "wong" polarity, it usually bugs me until I get up and switch the speaker cables. Not my favorite indoor sport, but there it is.
HowdyI agree wholeheartedly. Personally I hate tweaking random settings on my system. I prefer one, volume.
I have friends with speakers with 6 or 8 knobs, others with equalizers, others with loading controls for their TT cartridges... Me, I wish I didn't have even the cross over knobs on my sub :)
may be slightly off the mark, especially given the proliferation of music server devices. I saw a really cool server product at CES in the "sooloos" room (Jeff Joseph was using it too). It had the best user interface I've ever seen, and would be a perfect "whole house" solution. When I told my wife about it, she nearly flipped, as it does the exact thing she would want. More and more higher end servers are likely to come down the pike, but I doubt any of them will be a match for Ayre's products at the all important D/A conversion & output stage, given your attention to the "analog" outputs and all the other details you sweat that most others do not.It would be a shame not to be able to use such a product in the primary listening environment with a reference class D/A converter (like that I'm sure you will introduce in your "R"-level disc player, whenever tht arives). Anyway, you can add me to the list of folks who would like the digital input as a feature -- although I would also love to see what you would cook up if Ayre were to itself create a server-like product.
BTW, its really great to have you so actively participating here at the Asylum again and I trust your rehabilitation is providing results. Thanks as always. - Pete -
Count me also in the list of interested in digital input. Specially now that Blu-Ray is coming, having a digital input will be something of the greatest importance when I buy my next CD/SACD audiophile player.
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors: