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In Reply to: Please. Go ahead. Barf. posted by madisonears on February 28, 2007 at 07:01:54:
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Follow Ups:
But all that floppy-mouthed gushing was just too much to bear. It's a bit like the audiences at most classical concerts these days who leap to their feet shouting "Bravo!" following a performance that would earn a rating of "Moderately O.K."Miss Fischer is a wonderful player, and based upon what little I've seen of her in interviews, a very intelligent and pleasant human being. But, please, re-read the original poster's comments, and you may agree with me that they sound like sickening hero worship.
You certainly have a sour and humorless attitude. When a new talent bursts upon the scene and produces a string of remarkable recordings right out of the gate, I think it deserves proper recognition, even celebration. I apologize if my enthusiasm and whimsical attempt to stimulate discussion offended your snobbish sense of propriety.There are other posts here, by people more interested in discussing this topic rather than criticising contributors, that make comparisons of Fischer's skills to Grumiaux and other renowned artists. I think that speaks volumes about what she has already accomplished, and she's only 21. I know she has a long way to go and a lot to prove (and, I hope, improve). Yes, you might say this youngster is my heroine, but I certainly don't worship her. I worship Beethoven and Brahms.
My other heroes are the Pentatone executives who were smart enough to recognize her talent and make a huge gamble on it. In these days of multiple releases of uninspiring dreck poorly recorded by middling talents and reissues of ancient and sometimes incomprehensibly revered classics (Why? Because it's cheap, that's why!), the management at Pentatone and their artists deserve our thanks and our money for giving us the opportunity to hear something vibrant and fresh with truly remarkable sonics. It's the happiest of coincidences (probably not really witchcraft) that at least some of these new releases feature the ingenue Ms Fischer, and they're all very, very good. Obviously, everyone involved in these recordings is doing their utmost to give us lasting value and pleasure, and they deserve to be praised for that. A record company that cares about its product and its customers? How unique! Pardon me for bringing it to your attention.
It's too bad that you don't use this forum as an opportunity to offer something positive or informative to its participants. In your posts on this topic, mostly what you've done so far is disparage the style of my post and insult me. Perhaps you should stick to the topic and stow your condescending personal attacks.
We're getting WAY too far from the point of my original criticism: fawning praise is nauseating.If it was your intention to add some levity by being "whimsical" in your original post, then I offer my apologies. You haven't been posting here long enough for me to recognize your true "voice" vs. an affectation that you've adopted for a single post. To me, it sounded like a pretentious windbag trying to impress.
Still, I ask you to re-read your original post, all the while imagining yourself using these EXACT words in a regular conversation with family and friends. At the minimum, I expect you'd get rolling eyes. Most people should also expect and feigned gagging and comments that include the word, "dork."
I hope you also re-read MY posts, noting that, not only did I NOT disparage Julia Fischer, I complimented her. (Pentatone, however, has been hit or miss, for me. I gave up buying their disks after only two hits out of six.)
While I have sampled several of Julia Fischer's recordings, the only one I actually own is the unaccompanied Bach. I rarely listen to it, mainly because of what I consider excessive reflected sound which muddies up the clarity of the solo violin. It also sounds too closely-mic'd, unnaturally highlighting string and bow noise. It's funny that you mentioned the "wiry-toned" Hilary Hahn, whose tone and cleaner recorded sound I prefer. I've got tickets to her performance of the Sibelius concerto this coming Tuesday.
While I admit to stomping on your original post, I'm not looking for a war. Truce?
You mentioned Hilary Hahn. Having been a big fan of hers since 2002, it took me some time to recognize that some notes of hers have a characteristic that while not quite wiry, leaves a lot to be desired. I have heard Hahn live in Baltimore's Meyerhoff Hall, three times in Carnegie Hall, in Boston's Symphony Hall, twice in Boston's Jordan Hall at the New England Conservatory, once in Avery Fischer Hall, three times in a high school auditorium in Skaeatles NY, and three times last summer at the Verbier Music Festival in Switzerland. I know what she sounds like; I know and love her playing.So far I have heard Fischer only 5 times (in the Meyerhoff; at Symphony Hall, Boston; Avery Fischer in NY and in Memorial Hall at Union College in Schenectady). But though I only heard Fischer maybe a third as frequently as Hahn, I can say unequivocally that Fischer is the more interesting (interpretively speaking) artist and has a MUCH greater variety of tone color, whose hues are markedly more beautiful than anything I ever heard from Hahn.
Hilary is good, but Fischer completely mesmerizes her audiences and takes them on unique musical journeys employing a range of tonal color and a sweetness of tone (when she feels it is appropriate) that Hahn can only dream about. Both can be excellent in matters of phrasing, but here too Fischer maintains a real edge. Her understanding of the Beethoven concerto as realized last May in Baltimore transcends every other performance I ever heard (I have about 20 on LP, CD and SACD.) Grimaux's PentaTone RQR performance, for example, sounds pedestrian to these ears by comparison.
Julia Fischer is, above all else, a profoundly lyrical player. However, she is sufficiently well trained and disciplined that while she exerts at times extraordinary plasticity of tempi, taking essential time to linger, where musically beneficial, over this or that passage to give the melodic content its full due, she never, ever, fails to maintain the forward momentum of the music she plays. To quote one of the critics writing of the Baltimore Beethoven, "While she made time stand still, she never impeded the forward pulse of the music."
While I have sampled several of Julia Fischer's recordings, the only one I actually own is the unaccompanied Bach. I rarely listen to it, mainly because of what I consider excessive reflected sound which muddies up the clarity of the solo violin.Are you listening to two-channel or multi-channel? I find that sometimes, when I compare the two-channel tracks to the same multi-channel tracks, the engineers seem to have mixed in too much reverb from the rear channels into the two-channel mix. (I don't believe I've even listened to the two-channel tracks of the J. Fischer Sonatas and Partitas.)
...not that I have anything against multi-channel. The configuration and multi-use nature of my listening room simply makes multichannel impractical. I'll have to take your word for it on this one.The DVD that was included with my set suggests that the recording was closely-mic'd in an empty church. And it sure sounds like it. You can clearly hear the clicking sound that comes from the bow changing direction on a string, as well as the 'surface noise' of the rosined bowhair as it scrapes across the strings. These are all normal sounds, but they don't project well, and in a concert venue only those in the first few rows would have a chance of noticing them.
Also, for me, there is a sense of unease about the performance on this disc, and it could be that the in-your-face character of the sound is a contributing factor. Julia Fischer's speed and intonation are impressive, as is the gusto with which she plays. But, compared to my two favorite recordings of some of these works, those by James Ehnes and Hilary Hahn, Julia Fischer's feels rushed, shouty, and less lyrical.
That said, she could run her hands through a meat grinder and still outplay me.
The DVD that was included with my set suggests that the recording was closely-mic'd in an empty church. And it sure sounds like it. You can clearly hear the clicking sound that comes from the bow changing direction on a string, as well as the 'surface noise' of the rosined bowhair as it scrapes across the strings. These are all normal sounds, but they don't project well, and in a concert venue only those in the first few rows would have a chance of noticing them.Yes I agree. (I saw the DVD too.) - I like this type of sound however. I usually prefer to sit "close to the action", and, in moonlighting as a piano accompanist, I'm often onstage with the violinist! So it partly boils down to what you're used to and what you prefer.
I have another question which you may be able to answer. Another listener (local) told me that in one of the sonatas or partitas (sorry, I don't remember which one), Fischer did not follow the score exactly and instead used what sounded (to him) like a nineteenth-century emendation in one section. He also said that this is the same thing that Szeryng does in that spot on his recording. (Don't know if he was talking about Szeryng's mono version or his stereo DG version.) Do you know if this is true? - If it is, it's probably another reason I like Fischer's recording! :-)
Yep; it's a matter of personal preference. Sometimes I like the "up close and personal" sound, and I usually prefer it for chamber music, since it tends to provide better separation of the instruments.(My favorite of the few Pentatone disks I have is the Keisuke Wakao oboe recording.)I don't dig close mic'ing for full orchestra works, because it robs the strings of their lushness, and I don't believe it represents an acurate portrayal of the event from ANY seat in the house: nobody, not even the conductor, can be simultaneously five feet away from each section of the orchestra! I know most will disagree, but, as exciting as they are, (and I own eight of them) I don't think the Living Presence SACD releases sound as natural as their Living Stereo counterparts. To each their own.
As for the supposed deviation from the score by Julia Fischer, I can unequivocally state, "Uh...I dunno." I'm only intimately familiar with the Partita #3, having played most of it as bowing practice. If asked to guess, I'd say the Chaconne from the Partita #2 is the most likely candidate for monkeying around in.
If I can locate the score, and can find some spare time away from kids, wife, cell phone, computer, and customers.....
Please reread all our posts as often and as carefully as you want--especially the one about barfing. Take your own lecture to me about heeding my "voice" to heart. Just think how much better (and closer to topic) this thread could have been if you had responded to my original post as others did: with critical or constuctive arguments instead of attacking me. That's called an exchange of ideas instead of a flurry of insults.I maintain that all my friends who know anything about classical music and recordings would have at least smiled at my comments, then presented a respectful or possibly humorous, maybe even sarcastic response to them. No one I know would have been nauseated by them or feigned gagging. I couldn't care less about eye-rolling or name-calling--I've rolled plenty of eyes before, and many of my friends think I'm a dork anyway just for listening to and caring about classical music.
It appears that no one else here was upset in the least by my style, either. What my original post did for everyone else was to stimulate a discussion regarding the performing merits of JF and Pentatone's recordings of her (and others). You were the only person to attempt to belittle my comments and me personally, and you did it quite sophomorically. Twice. Apology accepted. I apologize for calling you sour and humorless. Truce by silence.
I do respect your contrary opinion regarding HH's and JF's tone. Being a string player yourself, you are certainly better informed to make a judgment. I heard Ms Hahn last year with my local symphony, and I thought she was just okay. Many thought the piece she played was a very poor choice: one of Paganini's concertos. Although technically challenging, it was absolute fluff and thoroughly boring. I did NOT give her a standing ovation. Just heard Zukerman a few weeks ago--now there's a sweet tone. He played and conducted a Bach concerto and conducted Tchaikovsky Symphony No. 4. Altogether an excellent show, and for that I stood and applauded quite enthusiastically.
Nothing, of course.FWIW, I agree with you, based on the one recording I have of Ms. Fischer. I do not consider myself to have the experience, training, etc. to express an opinion about the quality of the peformance, so I won't. But, on a kunckle-scraper level, I enjoy listening to it.
The commercial realities for classical music are that the repetoire is not being materially expanded. What is being "expanded" is the advent of new performers who can deliver appealing performances and, for people who care a lot about sonics, recordings that do a better job of capturing realistic-sounding sonics.
If someone like Ms. Fischer can generate interest in the music and an outfit like Pentatone chooses to promote her in technically well-done recordings that, it seems to me, is something to be applauded. One would hope that, at her age, she has more development to go as an artist. To say that is not a criticism.
To dimiss her out of hand, it seems to me, is both unfair and foolish if one cares about the music.
"To dimiss her out of hand, it seems to me, is both unfair and foolish if one cares about the music."I don't recall anybody having done this. Who are you referring to?
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