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In Reply to: Interesting Hi-Res (especially SACD) article in EQ magazine. posted by theaudiohiffle on December 31, 2004 at 16:41:07:
Recording DSD is easy enough - problem is processing it. Any digital processing of DSD is (1) technically difficult, and (2) when possible, the theoretical "simplicity" of DSD is completely lost. These considerations rule out DSD, now and forever, for most recordings (exceptions are analog recordings and purist recordings of the sort made by Telarc).For amateur recordings, DSD is especially silly, since there is no way to write a SACD onto a DVD-R (by design - it's a key part of the copy protection story).
Follow Ups:
For amateur recordings, DSD is especially silly, since there is no way to write a SACD onto a DVD-R (by design - it's a key part of the copy protection story).It took about 10 years to get 16-bit recording technology into the hands of amateurs, and it was tape-based. It's only been a few years since the big-time pros got DSD recording technology.
Whether DSD will ever be a useful recording technology for amateurs is another question entirely.
It took about 10 years to get 16-bit recording technology into the hands of amateurs, and it was tape-based.Sony marketed the PCM-1 processor to consumers starting in 1977. See the quote and link below.
In September 1977, the PCM processor was marketed as the PCM-1. Although it had to be used in combination with a VCR, it was the world's first product to be commercialized that enabled digital recording and playback. The PCM-1, which was generally intended for home-use, was priced at 480,000 yen.
I was talking about 16-bit technology. The Sony PCM-1 was 13-bit (and outrageously expensive).
Sony's 1978 PCM-1600 recording processor stored 2-channel digital audio on rotary head, 3/4-inch video tape. The system (which eventually became the PCM-1610/PCM-1630 format used in CD production) allowed digital editing by using modified video-editing controllers. Four years later, Sony's PCM-F1 (and later PCM-701/501/601 units) and Nakamichi's DMP-100 processors offered a consumer method to tape CDs digitally, with selectable 14- or 16-bit operation. Connecting a PCM processor to a VCR (Beta, VHS or U-matic) proved unpopular with consumers, but at $1,900, Sony's PCM-F1 was a hit with studios.
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NT
It was about how long it took from the time the "pros" started doing 16-bit to when "semi-pro" DAT decks at reasonable prices became available to the masses, i.e. the "amateurs" Max was referring to. I don't have to google the web or look for product history info to know this - I was there.I don't know why you have such a burning need to prove me wrong, or prove yourself right, or whatever, but I hope you're having fun trying! :-)
What prompted my original response was your quote:It took about 10 years to get 16-bit recording technology into the hands of amateurs, and it was tape-based. It's only been a few years since the big-time pros got DSD recording technology.
When I read this, I thought to myself, "Hmmm, this doesn't sound right". The reason I thought this is that I remember an issue of Audio mag from the mid '80s, shortly after I bought my first CD player, that featured a 16-bit PCM processor from Sony on the cover. I didn't remember its model number since that was so long ago, but I remember it because I was thinking of buying one at the time to make assortment tapes from my CDs. Since I don't have my old Audio mags from back then anymore, I had to resort to a web search to get the info on the player. After mistakenly finding a reference to an earlier processor, I found the following:
Sony's 1978 PCM-1600 recording processor stored 2-channel digital audio on rotary head, 3/4-inch video tape. The system (which eventually became the PCM-1610/PCM-1630 format used in CD production) allowed digital editing by using modified video-editing controllers. Four years later, Sony's PCM-F1 (and later PCM-701/501/601 units) and Nakamichi's DMP-100 processors offered a consumer method to tape CDs digitally, with selectable 14- or 16-bit operation. Connecting a PCM processor to a VCR (Beta, VHS or U-matic) proved unpopular with consumers, but at $1,900, Sony's PCM-F1 was a hit with studios.
So I suspect it was the PCM-F1 that appeared on the cover of the mid-'80s Audio . At any rate, this shows that 16-bit digital audio recording equipment was available to the consumer in 1984 at the price of $1900, for recording digital audio onto VCR tapes.
Then in your reply, you stated,
It was about how long it took from the time the "pros" started doing 16-bit to when "semi-pro" DAT decks at reasonable prices became available to the masses, i.e. the "amateurs" Max was referring to.
But your original quote up top did not refer to DAT specifically, but rather "16-bit recording technology". The point I'm trying to make here is that the "16-bit recording technology" was available to the consumer long before DAT, in the form of PCM processors for recording digital audio onto VCRs. The delays in introducing DAT were to a large extent due to the RIAA requiring copy protection to prevent digital copying of CDs, rather than technical issues.
...this thread was about the use of DSD for studio/music recording, by pros and amateurs, not about Joe Sixpack copying songs off of CDs to make mix tapes.
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