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In Reply to: Anyone waiting for the "new" hi-rez audio formats coming with HDMI? I'm not. posted by John C. - Aussie on April 9, 2007 at 18:10:18:
>> 1. Most people besotted with HDMI & High definition video are careless re audio - look at the nasty $1000 audio crap they often use associated with their latest plasma etc <<You make it sound like the average Joe has a plasma a cheap receiver. Plasmas are expensive and most of us who have them care about audio quality.
Though I haven't plunged into the HDMI waters yet, I plan to soon. The audio capabilities provided by blu-ray (for films, documentaries, music BDs and games) is actually nothing to sneeze at, and even provides true multichannel DSD via the Playstation 3. In fact, HDMI is the only way to use the PS3 as a real SACD player, not that it's going to outperform others...but I think it's worth further exploration. The compatibility problems of HDMI 1.X do need to be addressed sufficiently, and there's no reason to assume they won't.
>> 2. DVD-A is virtually dead. SACD might survive as it is being backed by a few record companies despite being abandoned by Sony but not many people out there know it even exists. <<
All audio formats except CD and MP3 are niche markets now. Sony is still supporting SACD, sort of. The new Volodos and Gould SACDs are both being released by Sony soon.
>> 3. If the paranoia (some of it justified, some not) associated with copy protection is embedded in the audio then flexibility with use of components will be very limited. <<
I don't think we can expect record labels and movie studios and any other owners of intellectual property to give up their pursuit of content protection any more than we can expect pirates and hackers to give up their pursuit of digital copying and illegal distribution. It's too bad we're caught in the middle, and it's too bad that honest consumers are the ones who suffer the bad consequences, but it's an unavoidable reality for the foreseeable future.
>> 4. As commented below, the HDMI protocols are continually changing and, at the moment, there are reports that this link introduces jitter. <<
More to the point, it introduces major compatibility problems, but if the industry expects consumers to adopt HDMI, those problems will be rectified.
>> Not trying to be a Luddite on this (or on high definition video which I have so far avoided as a direct source - prefer SD scaled up with a DVDO HD+) but the thought of yet another audio format does not thrill me. As far as I'm concerned, CD will be around for awhile yet and most manufacturers have still not yet extracted the best music results from this, often spurned, format. <<
Well, unless you have an iPod and download all your music, you are a luddite. It's ok. I'm a luddite too. The fact is that consumer buying habits have changed forever, and left us audiophiles and the record labels in an awkward position. Blu-ray is a video format with some great audio capabilities built in. SACD was our shot at a high resolution CD, and I think it had about as good a run as could be expected in terms of the support of major labels and the music-buying public.
>> The track record for engineering expertise with CDs is not without blemish so there is room for improvement there. <<
Sure, and there's even more room for improvement in recording which for the most part is a lost art. It would be great to see anything optimized, from the recording studio to the setup in our listening room. But none of that is relevant to format, is it.
>> The reason for so many below par releases is that most people do not care and would not hear any difference anyway - so where would the market be for yet more hi-rez audio confusion?. <<
it's all about the target market, which for record labels is usually teenagers. So what do you expect? Again, this has nothing to do with format.
>> For me, SACD is a very acceptable alternative to CD. <<
For me, SACD is hands down superior to CD. And it never had enough support or releases to qualify as an alternative. I just hope we see the industry occasionally keep trying to make high resolution digital audio a reality, either with SACD or another quality format.
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
Follow Ups:
Unfortunately that is true, at least in Australia.It's a situation created by the home entertainment chains and "category killers".
Their main objective is to lure people into spending A$4-6K on a plasma or LCD panel.
Our current government introduced an election winning tactic of offering a "baby bonus" of A$4K for families to encourage women to stay at home and produce lots of kids, and to offset the costs of childcare.
Because it is not means tested, most middle class families use the money to buy a home theatre system.
Most stores will offer a package around this figure, and the main attraction is the "big screen." To make it seem like a great deal, they will either throw in a cheap receiver and satellite speakers for "free" (or for a nominal extra cost, kind of like buying a "value deal" at McDonalds).
So guess what - a LOT of people have a fancy big screen, very cheap receiver and satellite speakers, plus a subwoofer. Just like when you go to McDonalds, the main attraction is the burger - the fries and Coke are part of the "value deal".
If anyone is interested in audio, they will "super size" the package by offering a mid range receiver and bookshelf speakers.
Virtually no one buys anything more fancy than that.
When our family and relatives visit and see our system, they think we are absolutely bonkers. We probably are. :-)
As an American audiofool, I know where to go to learn about decent audio equipment, mostly on the internet. But the average Joes here wouldn't even know where to start, and the number of stores catering to high(er) end audio is miniscule compared to the number of stores selling plasmas and LCDs. Best Buy and CC (after firing all the knowledgable staff, if you could call them that) do not carry anything but budget priced audio, and I haven't seen anybody looking at the audio gear in these stores, whereas the TV section is always full of browsers.Let's face it, the audio hobby is dead, except for us in the asylum. HT kept it alive a little longer, but the iPod has killed it completely.
I agree mostly with what you say. You CAN find Martin Logan at BB...
I have seen electrostats at BB and some good Polks at Frys, but neither store carries 2 channel amp/integrated/receivers beyond Denon and onkyo. (I have never seen the new denon and onkyo integrateds there though)However... just a couple years ago the best these stores had was Bose's latest disaster.
I think the situation is improving quite a bit on the mass consumer front. Hell... The 2 channel integrated amp has gone mainstream with onkyo, denon, and yamaha all having several, and there are more 2 channel receivers available now than a few years ago, and I have seen several turntables for sale at all the stores where a few years ago most consumers just assumed vinyl was dead.
I think the average consumer today has a much better variety of audio options that don't totally suck balls.
I also get strange comments when people find out how much I have put into 2 channel... "You mean it doesn't even have surroundsound?!?!"
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