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In Reply to: Finally, someone who makes sense! posted by Christine Tham on April 8, 2007 at 03:08:35:
Chris, I think you could be correct in that not all mods are great and a placebo effect can come into play. As has frequently been said, "different" does not always mean "better".But have a geek at the article referred to below.
Even if one has owned a player, got used to its sound, and then sent it off to be modded, it is impossiblet to make valid "before" and "after" comparisons as auditory memory is so poor.
But maybe I have been lucky in the people chosen to modify units here (most done by James at Soundlabsgroup in Melbourne, & DAC mods done by Steve Nugent, Empirical Audio). For example, the OPPO 971H, although recognised for its excellent video, was not as well praised for the audio. After James had modded it the sound from CDs (into the modded Benchmark etc) was excellent.
But in line with your comment I would not swear that a mod to the Meridian 800 improved it dramatically. I sensed the bass was improved but CDs sound far better via the modded OPPO or modded Marantz SACD player.
Bottom line to me is that this whole business of getting great sound from digital is a black art. And some of the modder magicians are better than others and maybe some are merely offering an illusion :-(
John
Do not criticise the idiots in this world - we need them as they make the rest of us look so much better :-)
Follow Ups:
Thanks for posting the link to the review, and keeping an open mind.In my experience, replacing the op amp post DAC, or the coupling capacitors, will almost certainly change the "sound" a player.
But is the difference an "improvement"? Measured results often suggest otherwise. Often they show little or no significant change, and occasionally a change for the worse.
Also, the review provides no indication that the units being compared was burned in equally, or even came from the same manufacturing batch. Often different batches can sound different.
And putting in a substitute clock may or may not be a good idea, as the link in your previous post suggests. Yes, the clock may intrinsically have lower jitter, but what about the EMI/RFI emitted, and potential impact on stability of voltage rails? I wouldn't be at all surprised if the modded unit exhibits HIGHER jitter due to these factors which could be interpreted as euphonic.
Lastly, the review provided no measurement comparison, so it was hard to be certain that the modded unit is objectively improved. Given that our ears tend to interpret some forms of distortion euphonically (indeed, as I mentioned in my reply to Ted, a common technique used in mixing is to ADD DISTORTION to the mix) it is not beyond possibility that any perceived improvement in the sound could be due to a change in the distortion artefacts in the modded unit.
Chris, you raise very valid points. I've often suspected the love many audiophiles have for vinyl and tubes reflects a subjective feeling of improved sound because of introduced distortion which masks other nasties. But I could be wrong so that statement is not meant to offend or challenge anyone.As for jitter, it seems that there is no generally accepted objective measurement of this either so any quote of a number purporting "low" jitter (implying better sound) is not necessarily helpful.
So, we seem to fall back on subjective judgements and that is full of tanktraps too. What person "A" things is good sound might not appeal to person "B".
In this audio maze (which is frequently difficult to emerge from) all I can do, in the absence of personal audition, is to research opinions on the net and/or accept opinions from people (like yourself) who command respect. When many give subjective positive comment on a unit, it is an indication that it could also be subjectively pleasing to me.
I know this is sidestepping your challenge about the validity of modding, but my experience with it has been generally positive. I guess most of us seek a little magic in this audio-video mania :-)
John
Do not criticise the idiots in this world - we need them as they make the rest of us look so much better :-)
*** there is no generally accepted objective measurement of this either ***There are a number of units out there that measures jitter. True, none of them really measure absolute jitter, but they give indications of relative jitter.
I would have thought the least that one can do when replacing the clock is to at least provide before and after measurements. Otherwise, how do we know whether the jitter is actually improved? For all we know the clock may not be the limiting factor - it could be a number of things (voltage rail stability, EMI/RFI, PLL reclocking, ...) Just replacing the clock and thinking that it will improve jitter is naive at best, or wishful thinking.
I'm not against mods, I like doing them myself. For example, the latest mod that I did (over Christmas) was wrapping the audio circuit board in grounded aluminum foil (taking care to avoid short circuits) as an attempt to improve EMI compatibility.
It seems to sound better after I have done the mod, but to be honest the measurements are not statistically significant. So was it really an improvement or not? Who knows, but it makes me feel better. So I will admit I am also susceptible to the voodoo that surrounds this hobby of ours.
LOL. But really it is only an extention of the magic of listening to music!John
Do not criticise the idiots in this world - we need them as they make the rest of us look so much better :-)
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