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I need a cheap player. What at $100, new or used, sounds best without mods. I probably don't have what it takes to do any mods, and then there is the time. If the mod is putting something on top to isolate the unit, ok, maybe even a new cord, but tracking down new parts, and finding instructions and webpages is too much effort for me. The mods will probably put me off my budget as well.I can't see suffering reliability for sound, so, please, it needs to be reliable. I don't expect a $100 unit to last forever either, just something reasonable.
I have read the raves of the almighty Toshiba 3950/60, but the unmodded sound appears unconclusive. Is this really the best unmodded? Also, the archives are full of reliability issues. Are these issues compared to other cheap machines, or simply to the more expensive units typically used by the majority of members. Also, out of curiosity, do the mods eliminate the reliability issues, or are people spending time and money on machine which could go down at any time?
If you recommendations are redbook only, no problem. If it is a DVD that sounds great on redbook, so much the better. DVD-A and SACD are of no concern.
Follow Ups:
nt
Re the Pioneer vs. Tosh comparison, the Pioneer doesn't s---, per previous posters and forums. Is Tosh that much better than Sony or Panasonic?I have had good luck with Cyberhome 300 ($30-40 new-my brother got one for $17 from BestBuy on a 1/2 price day) despite what some people say about it, probably due to its variable QC.
Interestingly, I just hooked up my $30.00 Cyberhome DVD player to my receiver this morning to see how it sounded since I need another player. Compared to my old (early 90's?) Sony cdp-c515 5 disc changer, I thought the Cyberhome sounded awful. Almost muffled compared to the Sony.Was I doing something wrong? I was using cheap freebie interconnects, but theyr'e the same I use with the Sony.I'd sure like for it to work, but I have no ability to undertake mods, nor do I even understand what "cryoing" even means.
My Cyberhome isn't broken in yet. I know about the cryo post before. My listening was vs. Philips DVDR 75 and Pioneer Elite DV-47Ai. The latter is arguably high end, but is bright and hard and needs mod to make it really listenable, esp. vs. analog.A few months ago, the Cyberhome was indistinct and imprecise but did play reasonable sound and had a picture which was at least 80% of the Pioneer, but on my 12 yr old CRT Panasonic TV (Norah Jones, Live in New Orleans). It sounded distinctly superior to the Philips. But now, the Philips has caught up some (breakin?) and might best the Cyberhome.
I compared the Cyberhome to my old Sony CDP-C525 (similar to yours) because the Sony was starting to malfunction (open box special for $179.00 back in 1991). A few months ago, in my 2nd system of SS 80's vintage with monitors only, and there was very little difference. For a cheap changer, the Sony still sounds inoffensive and pretty good, but has the usual digital issues of lack of full life, hardness at times, etc.
My Cyberhome is a 320, not a 300. Wonder if that makes any difference.I can't tell any difference from their website.
I also use the Cyberhome (I own the Toshiba as well and it has been relegated to the basement for the kids to use), which I have done some very minor modifications to: damping of the chassis/transport with industrial floor tile and rope caulk, replaced the fuse with a ceramic, had an iec. installed for use with an upgraded power cord.I also had the player cryoed, and this made a HUGE difference in both audio and video performance. If you are close to a cryo vendor, this should not cost you more than about $20-$25 on top of the $40 for the player.
It is my understanding that the Cyberhome uses a Wolfson DAC, and it is quite a different animal, in my experience, than the Toshiba. In my opinion, the stock Toshiba is a little rolled off, which with digital and certain budget systems can certainly be a good thing. The Cyberhome is much more extended and open in the high frequencies and also offers a more transparent midrange than the Toshiba. The Toshiba, I thought, sounded pretty good out of the box; the Cyberhome made my ears bleed out of the box. It may need an extended break-in, or it simply may be a matter of cryo really transforming the player. In any event, I really like it; it's a much better player than the Arcam Alpha 8SE I used to own at a fraction of the price.
Will cost you a little more, but try the refurb Marantz CC4300 on eBay from Accessories4Less for $130 plus shipping. I've got one and like it (but I plan to play with the op amps - the JRC 2114D that it uses could be improved upon very cheaply).
Bishop,
The Toshiba 3950/3960 got to the essence of music. Some have called it the soul and I would agree. For a reference with more "stature", take a look at John Atkinson's opinion of it at Stereophile .Why do DVD's make decent playback units compared to "early" harsh sounding CD players besides the evolutionary time factor. Here is my short list:
- Standardization to a few DAC chipsets such as the excellent units made by Burr Brown in the low cost sector.
- Use of one master clock
- Use of seperate supplies for analog and digital. On the Toshiba, a lot of smaller electorlytics wired up in parallel was used in preference to one large unit to good effect.
- Standardization of 8x spin rates so that video/audio buffers can be used digital filtering and for video interpolation. This should help decorrelate some of the supply modulation effects of the motor/tracking servos.
- More demanding nature of video playback on large screens (i.e. average consumer looking at a 54" screen from 3 feet away) has necessitated more case in generating lower jitter clocks to decrease pixel jitter...this all benefits audio
Does this mean the new replacement for the SD-3950/SD-3980 called the SD-3980 will be the equal ? Not sure but, one of the after market modders called RAM is using it as a base for their offerings. I've had a look at the SD-3980 and was not impressed by the plastic bottom casing and have recommended buying one model up . Good Luck and try spending about $150 (retail). The $100 street price you will spend probably means a unit or two above the bottom rung. Be sure to give your final decision a listen at home and watch to see if your foot is tapping...if not, bring it back to the return desk of the place you bought it.
PeAK
pick any one that you can find for a hundred bucks. all of the pannys sound about the same - ruthlessly neutral. A real bargain at their price point(s). If you need something a little softer or more forgiving, try a Sony DVD player. The Sonys have a certain "house sound" that is hard to describe, but it is easy on the ears.good luck!
If you do not care about DVD, then try and find a Yamaha unit at that price point. I have found they error on a "softer" presentation. You may be able to find a 5 disc on sale at Best Buy et al. There is a Magnavox DVD on sale there for $39. I would not be agonizing over sound quality at this price point.
Well If yer wanting to know... you could just Listen to a few DVD players..they are ubiquitous.. surprisingly, Most are the equal of the currently available CD players.. but that you will have to discover on your own.
Yes it's true.. the technology has simply leapfrogged that genre,
Hi rate DAC's and Hi frequency Lasers..Really Do.. make a difference..even in a dirt cheap mass volume unit ,often with 'disposable' build quality.. But then at $50! for a unit, one can afford at least a Dozen! failures and still be at less than half the price of a passsable CD player.
IF you find the sonics not quite to your liking the Video playback is still pretty darn good :-)
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I would have to agree. I own a 3960 and I really don't think there is anything special about the Toshiba 3950/3960. At least nothing that anyone has been able to point out that is any different, then any other DVD player. You could probably do the same mods to any DVD player and get about the same results.So yeah for under $100 probably not much difference in sound.
FWIW, I've tried putting both a Toshiba 3950 ($50) and a Pioneer 563A ($150) (both unmodded) in my reference system just for kicks, and the Toshiba was noticeably better than the Pioneer (mostly because the Pioneer sucked eggs really badly!). Neither was a particular "Giant killer", but the Toshiba was certainly worthy of comparison to other CD/DVD players under $300...(Reference system consists of Focus FS888 speakers, Blue Circle BC3000mkii preamp and BC206 amp, Dodson DA-218 DAC and modified Sony S7700 for transport)...
the point of the 3950 is that it responds very well to replacing stock components. If anyone thought these things sound good without the mods, they had nothing decent to compare them with.I highly doubt there's a "good sounding" player available under $100 that can be used without mods and qualify as a hi-fi component.
The quality of the parts in these things is bottom of the barrel - if they can save $0.01 on a capacitor they will do so. I have two 3950s that were built 2 months apart. The later model has a number of differences in the power supply, where they elected to downsize or replace components for smaller/cheaper parts.
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