|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
66.47.253.226
I've written here about the Naim CDX2. But my other CD player is the Meridian G08. These two players are completely different from each other.The G08 is packed with features; the CDX2 is bare bones. The G08 has balanced outputs, the CDX2 has DINs. The G08 is available in silver, the CDX2 is not. The G08 has a big silver remote, the CDX2 has a plastic Philips RC5 jobbie. The G08 has a DVD drive, the CDX2 has a swing out drawer. The G08 will eat CD tweaks, while the CDX2 requires a magnetic puck. The G08 is impervious to vibration, the CDX2 is as touchy and sensitive as mid- to late-80s Discmen.
I have access to several balanced preamps. I have identical XLR and RCA cables, some of which are top of the line (e.g., Kimber Select silver, Tara Labs ISM, Nordost Valhalla, XLO Limited Edition). I don't know if it's the player or the preamps, but the G08 sounds MUCH better via the balanced outputs. Balanced is simply more open, spacious, and focused.
The G08 and CDX2 sound completely different from each other. The G08 is about elegance, grace, harmonics (well, good for digital), poise, openness, detail, tone, soundstaging, and transparency. Audiophiles will love this type of sound, especially those who cannot tolerate distortion or any note out of place. But somehow, for all the class and smoothness, the G08 doesn't kick ass. It is afraid to get down and dirty. It doesn't have enough grip or traction. It doesn't bark and growl.
The solo CDX2 is tonally uneven, fuzzy, jumbled, choppy, and kind of black and blue. But you know what? When the music needs to be chunky and gravelly, the CDX2 delivers. There's simply more force behind the music.
I was listening to a bunch of Motley Crue tunes. Through the G08, the Crue were unambiguously clear. I've not heard scene where the motorcycle gets away [at the end of "Girls, Girls, Girls"] so vividly and accurately clean, expansive, and definitively clear.
Through the CDX2, the treble is tentative, and down in level. There's less air, so the whole work is confined to the small space between the speakers. But, Mick Mars' guitars are more sticky sweet, more greasy, more snarling and chewy.
On Neil Sedaka's "Laughter In The Rain," damn, the G08 makes the boundaries disappear, and listeners become light-footed, wanting to dance off into the imaginary rain... The CDX2 reins in the proceedings, the sound becoming lumpy and bumpy, not as emotionally stirring, inspiring, or satisfying.
The G08 perfectly captures the stunning open clarity on Belinda Carlisle's "Heaven Is A Place On Earth." The instruments play independently of each other, yet, as a whole, the song causes all of your body parts to play along. The see-through clarity is addictive, addictive, addictive. On the CDX2, this song is kind of a muddled mess. The lack of proper treble body, positioning, and decay robs the song's life, scale, impact, meaning, flow, and fun.
On Steely Dan's "My Old School," the G08 makes the performance seem distant, as if we're watching from afar. But on the CDX2, we're Right There, heads swinging side to side, singing boyishly along...
If audiophiles were forced to choose between these two players, I'd estimate that, all factors considered, out of 4 would pick the Meridian G08. Based solely on sonics, I'd guess that the ratio would narrow to 2 out of 3 in favor of the Meridian. But in the real world, shoppers are not limited to these two players. Having lived with both, I'm of the opinion that most people in this market will pass on both.
Still, I am fortunate to have the opportunity and length of time to evaluate both players side by side. If I want to slow down, and revel in classy audiophile sound, I'll use the G08. If I just want to get it on, and don't care about specifics, I'll use the CDX2.
Some people will like the G08, others will cling to the CDX2. It all depends on the rest of your system, your aesthetic tastes, your patience, and how important redbook CDs are in your musical diet. But do yourself a favor, and check out these two radically different machines. Bottom line, after properly matching the speakers ith your room, the source is THE MOST IMPORTANT, determining factor of the system. The source sets the table, dictates what the rest of the chain will follow.
Follow Ups:
nt.
*the source is THE MOST IMPORTANT, determining factor of the system. The source sets the table, dictates what the rest of the chain will follow.*Lummy,
That's a nice idea that many flat-earthers follow.
But the 'source first' idea only works AFTER you optimise the speakers/room/amplifier interaction.If the speakers are not working properly in the room, or inadequatly powered or there is a mismatch with a preamp, I found that the great source often is wasted.
The GIGO idea sounds good on paper, I've heard too many *mullet* systems that were equally efffective as a system.
nt
Hi John,
Please alaborate on the apparent lack of bass / rhythmic drive. It shouldn't be lacking in this price range.
Regards,
Tonal balance and rhythmic integrity are two different facets.When you talk about tonal balance, you have to ask yourself if said component acts like an equalizer, always fiddling with the quantities at various frequencies.
Rhythmic integrity has to do with how well the component preserves the music's pulse, timing, energy, and beat.
If a song is plodding, even a fully-loaded Naim system can't do anything magical to imbue the song with rhythm. A prime example is Led Zeppelin's clunky "Kashmir." A system that has rhythmic integrity will reveal this song for what it is. It will not artificially speed it up, nor will it further foul its clumsiness.
Tonally, the G08 is quite honest. Assuming your room and system are full range, the G08 will reproduce the tonal spectrum that really is on the CD. The G08 lacks a little bit of the music's punch, force, and physical power. Whether it's the organ at SF's St. Mary's Cathedral, Lars Ulrich's Pearl drums, Steve Vai's Eventide harmonizer, Dolores O'Riordan's animal growls and angelic highs, Nikki Sixx's Hamer bass guitars, Erasure's various keyboards, or Nicko McBrain's Paiste cymbals, the G08 reproduces music with a touch less oomph than it should. Does the G08 sound slow? No. Does the G08 sound choppy or constipated? No. Does the G08 sound neutered and polite? No.
Motley Crue's "Dr. Feelgood" should chewy. I think the Naim CDX2 captures this feel better than the G08. Through the G08, Aerosmith don't sound as greasy as they should; they've been cleaned up. Rush's "Tom Sawyer" sounds a bit too pristine. The drums on L.A. Guns' "Rip And Tear" should have amazing pop. Through the G08, the drums are placed back in the stage, where they sound more intellectual, less raw and primal than they should. The flat, 2-dimensional recording of Overkill's "Coma," via the G08, sounds less like a thrash band, and more like running veggies through the Cuisinart.
But are the above rhythmically screwed up? Hell no. It just doesn't kick as much ass as it should. And no, turning the volume up doesn't make it any more chunky or forceful.
I've listened to many digital pieces. Throughout the audible frequency range, the G08 is as honest as anything else out there. That's what I like about it; it doesn't play equalizer games with the frequency response.
I would like to add that playing around with quality sources really heightens your knowledge of the music. 'Cuz basically, if the source can't produce the music, nothing I do downstream can. Fiddling with cables, tubes, and speakers ain't gonna get me anywhere but audiophile hell. And once you become intimately familiar with your music, evaluating hi-fi becomes easier. We won't always be able to describe (put in words) what works, but you'll know it when you hear it.
Each of us has different listening preferences. That is why some of my guests would pick the CDX2 over the G08, most would pick the G08, some would be thrilled with either, and others hate 'em both.
Me? I'm at home right now. I have both of the CD players hooked up to the system. I have to admit, if I don't think about "which is better," and I want to hear how good a CD can be, I 2 times out of 3 put the disc into the G08.
But what if I'm at my parents' place, lying in my old bed? Then I slap on the AKG K1000s, grab the Creek CD53's remote [it's a Philips RC5, which also controls the Naim], and use the CDX2. Killer.
Having had over a year with a G08 I can give my impressions if it's of any use. The G08 has very good rhythmic drive, it's just that compared to Naim it doesn't have the same bottom end weight and impact. Also there's very little out there that nails timing and pace like Naim gear.All that considered, I heard the G08 coupled with a Krell KCT pre, FPB300cx power amp, B&W802D's the other weekend and the bass was powerful, very deep, and fast as I could possibly want. As in all things audio, every manufacturer puts there own mark on the sound that emerges from the equipment and Meridian differs from Naim. I've yet to hear any piece of gear at any price that "does it all".
Cheers,
A CDX2 might not be a lot of things, but one thing it delivers is the latter. ( and the CDX2 is relatively round-earthed for Naim )
If you feel like having a short Email conversation, - I'd love to chat more off-line about this....Hope that you're well...
Cheers,
you are a dealer for the BC now????
Sordidman has gotten so many folks into BC (including myself over two years ago, leading to me becoming a BC dealer), he's missed out on a ton of sales over the years... :-D
.
Lummy - i have followed your CDX2 postings with keen interest, because i have also been listening to the Naim CDX2, amoungst other machines.Your post are very well stated.
> > Having lived with both, I'm of the opinion that most people in this market will pass on both. < <
Performance aside, an important part of the equation is price. In canada, prices often seem a little out-of-scope compared to the United States.
What is the US price for the CDX2 and G08?
In the US, I think the solo CDX2 is $5350. The Meridian G08, last time I checked, was $4000. But I wouldn't pay retail price for digital equipment.I acquired a barely-used CDX2 from a guy who was getting the CDS3 (smart guy; if the CDX2 is an inflatable raft, the CDS3 is a tugboat). I then compared the used CDX2 to (a) a new unit, and (b) a well-used demo unit. That's how I was able to discern the effects of burn-in.
I failed to mention that, in an overall sense, the Naim CDX2 and Meridian G08 have made me forget about my mothballed digital separates, which include the Mark Levinson No. 360 DAC.
It's too bad that the Simaudio Equinox inverts polarity. If they could correct that, they'd have a winner. So that left me to look upwards, and I ended up with the CDX2 and G08.
Honestly, when I tally up the score for the G08, there's a long list of positives, and only a few negatives. But the negatives, for some, will be fatal flaws. I know plenty of people who absolutely HATE the G08's sloooooooooow loading time. It takes anywhere from 12 to 19 seconds for the stupid drive to read the disc, and be ready to play. Though functional and cool-looking, the remote is not easy to handle and use. You need two hands to hold and operate it. With so many buttons, you'll never be able to use it in the dark. You need to push pretty hard, for the buttons to execute the command. Other than that, I can't find much else negative to report.
I think The Absolute Sound said that the G08 has a sound that elicits the "whatever you paid, it was worth it" response from the crowd. I whole-heartedly agree. That's exactly the vibe I get from the guests who have listened to the G08.
The G08 is all about class. Customers who seek that type of product probably will fall in love with the G08. But I do wish to point out that that isn't for everyone. Some people just want to get it on, and get down and dirty. These are the people who would pick the CDX2 over the G08.
Another scenario that hasn't been brought to light in the mainstream press is the CDX2's performance in headphone systems. I use the AKG K1000 earspeakers. If you have a clean, quiet amp, I strongly encourage you to try the CDX2 as your source. If you start flailing around to KC & The Sunshine Band, and your K1000s go flying across the room, don't say I didn't warn you :-) I commented that, through loudspeakers, the CDX2 had lousy soundstaging and a skewed tonal balance. But these criticisms evaporate, when the CDX2 is used with the K1000s. With Erasure filling your head, you'll become Vince Clark, mastering the keyboards!
Well, I hope that my tales tip off readers to the pluses, minuses, and in-betweens of these CD players. When we all share our experiences, and the context in which they occurred, we all become better educated. 'Cuz let's face it; this stuff ain't cheap, and not too many people are into it. We need to arm ourselves with as much info as possible, in order for us as consumers to make smarter choices.
The cost of some digital products is rising quicker than the sonic gains. As an example - im still not certain that i like the smoother sounding CDX2 over the original CDX. They share the same strenghts & compromises; but the CDX2 is considerably more money.The CDX2 is a cool $7k canadian. Add PS and it rises to $14k.
As a bare bones package - the CDX2 is indeed a fine player (like most digital players, its has pros & cons, though it cons are not well suited to my preferences). However when comparing it to its nearest competition - i think it is $2k overpriced up in these hills.
As for the price of a CDX2/PS - hells bells - I could pick up a used Linn CD12 and have about $4k worth of change left over. And I dont care if Naim used a nuclear reactor for its power supplies, an old CD12 will make a CDX2/PS sound slow footed, dynamically challenged, grainy (although the CDX2 is one of the least grainiest players i have heard) and certainly limited in bandwidth & extension.
Not to be hard on Naim, they are indeed a fine company. And they are not alone in overpricing digital components in some regions. This is not the first time that i have auditioned players that sounded excellent, but to my ears did not compete well at the upper price range.
Cary digital up here in canada had the same issue. Upon auditioning the 306/200 - i agree that it sounded quiet fine. It had excellent extension, good dynamic power and fine bandwidth, but it was always grainy and a touch sterile in comparison to some others. That said - it was certainly not $3k better than a Sim Nova (i still prefer the Nova to the 306 - and possibly even the CDX2).
Up here in canada - i heard the recent BAT player and the AR CD3 - both excellent sounding players - yet both priced around $8k. Once again - as good as they sounded - to my ears - they did not merit that kind of extra coin when compared to the competition.
To me - the digital sweet spot sits around $2k - $4k us ($3k-5K canadian) you will find a number of players that sound truly excellent. Ok - preference creeps into this equation but that said - a variety of players exist at what i consider reasonable prices. The Ayre and Sim come to mind, even the meridian 588 retailed around $5k canadian - 588 being the best Meridian i have heard to date.
The Meridian G08 seems to be priced at a more reasonable point.No argument from me, if you have the money, if you justify the performance to cost - go for it.
You said ... "But I wouldn't pay retail price for digital equipment" ... and i tend to agree, except that i am willing to pay retail given that the cost is reasonable to start with.
TBone
Thanks for your post, and I'll shut up about it, - but the "value" of digital these days is falling like a rocket-slide to oblivion....
Posted this last fall-
More $ buys 1) better treble, 2) bigger soundstage, and 3) more clarity and resolution but the performance gap @ 1k-to-3k is ~10% and < 10% @3k to-SOTA. Kinda like going from 16 bit to remastered to audiophile recording. Wish I could appreciate what others are hearing, but 3x more $ for 10% performance gain is tough. Another problem is alot of the transports are nothing more than OEM $60 computer cd-drives...not kidding, so buying used with no warranty transfers, and too many moving parts is a wildcard.I think a lot of the top dog dedicated units have seen there day in the sun. Seems like the market conditions, hi-rez formats, abundance of <1k units, etc. have caused companies with top dog units to abandon further advancements on their top end stuff, focus on universals players, and throw their best redbook advancements into their lesser priced units. I found the units in the 3k price tier to be the sweet spot much better than lesser priced units and a stones throw away from the top dog units even from the same manufacturer.
The SOTA cdp are great, but upgrading other stuff seems wiser in terms of diminishing returns, value, and ROI.
Believe what your ears say - not hearsay.
> > With so many buttons, you'll never be able to use it in the dark. < <But that's why it's backlit. All you have to do is push any button and the lights come on. I use the function key as it's the bottom left so it's easy to find and it also doesn't adjust anything on the player. I've also not experienced anything like the load times you have. My unit regularly takes six seconds, which allows me to put the previous cd back on the rack and to get seated and ready to listen.
Cheers,
Damn, I wish my unit loaded that quickly! It's good for you to post that. Now, people who are interested in the G08 are tipped off that they should check to see how long their unit takes to load and read a CD.While one person loads a CD, another takes a stopwatch, and times how long it takes for the display to read the TOC [which indicates that the CD is ready to be played]. Once the CD is read, the operations are quick. While my unit takes forever to load, I feel I can go away, take can take a whiz, and come back (j/k!).
The display's brightness can be adjusted. However, during the day, when sunlight floods the room, the display is hard to read.
Don't laugh. While burning in the G08, I used it with a Creek OBH-14, Wright Sound WPA3.5, and NHT Superzeroes. I used stock powercords, an API Power Pack II, Kimber Timbre-0144 [the OBH-14 is single-ended only, so no balanced cables here], and 4TC. The sound of this throw-it-together ragamuffin system was superb. It had a sense of textural believability that went far beyond the small size and relatively low cost.
And of course, when I used the G08 with true high-end gear, its classy sound took center stage. But that got me thinking. Many SET amps do a wonderful job of preserving the music's flavor, texture, and feel. But if the source isn't capable of providing that flavor, texture, and feel, forget it. But a-ha, the G08, especially for redbook CD, does a terrific job in extracting flavor, texture, and feel from those encoded bits [obviously, the better the recording, the better it'll sound. But the G08 won't take a bad recording and mercilessly shove it in your ears]. Combine the G08 with a nice analog rig, and you're set to enjoy BOTH CD and vinyl.
Just because the G08 has a "classy" sound doesn't mean rock fans should turn away. The G08 doesn't add any grit or grain, and doesn't shut down the soundscape. So Dokken's "Beast From The East" has never been so listenable. The G08 doesn't add any more distortion or smear the instruments on Whitesnake's eponymous album. The keyboard heaven intro to "Here I Go Again" is marvelous. And when the guitars rip on "Bad Boys," your ears aren't unceremoniously assaulted by more noise. The G08, unlike so many other CD players, does not shut down the top end. Thus, Alex Van Halen's cymbals on "When It's Love" are allowed to shine, shimmer, and lead the rhythm. The G08's midrange purity allows us, finally, to hear the glistening tones on Joe Satriani's "The Snake." Too many CD players put a lid on the soaring sax on INXS' "What You Need." Not the G08. I've heard CD players take Kim Carnes' "Bette Davis Eyes," and make it sound like a grainy, muddled mess, like U2's "With Or Without You." The G08 preserves "Bette Davis Eyes'" cool, eerie, sinister, ethereal landscape. It's as if you can breathe in the fog. That's what's in the recording, and that's what the G08 decodes.
Interesting. I own a G08 and have heard a CDX2 with supercap power supply. (I havne't heard the CDX2 bare though.) Both are very good machines and I think you've captured the basic character of the G08 very well so I'll assume you've got the CDX2 nailed also.I'm right with you up until the last bit where you think that people in the real world will pass on both. I've found the G08 suits me, my music and my listening prefs perfectly and I doubt I'll be looking for anything for a long time. This camper is (I think) living in the real world and I'm very happy with the Meridian.
Cheers,
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors: