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In Reply to: Re: Bastanis posted by Robert Bastani on October 29, 2006 at 23:11:41:
O.K....I understand.
I ask that because I have a bad experience with Supravox drivers into an mltl and closed enclosure(that was big).The sound was sublime,much detail but don't go too low.
So ...I'm thinking to put them into a small open baffle with a decent sub.
Another question will be......what do you think is the diferences between the side woofer and one down firing?In our case that will be an subwoofer.
Do you think if I choose a 10" sub. mounted into a sealed enclosure-down firing....with a linkwitz filter and with a 16" wide and 30" high baffle for an 8" Supravox driver(qts=0,53,xmax.=4mm) should work?
I hope don't bother you with that type of questions.
Many thanks and best regards,
Follow Ups:
Hi,the small 8"- Supravox offers a good midrange but will never produce midrange- adequate, fundamental basses in a sealed enclosure or on an open baffle. There are two possibilities:
1) Adapt the Dragonfly- cabinet for the Supravox, this should work for your room and placement, also it is downfiring!
2.) When the max. distance to the backwall is fine for a dipole open- baffle (you can try this first with a cheap platter, when the midrange shows more air and details without new disturbing "peaks" it is fine) you can combine them with active woofers.
You will need two woofers because the widebands will show an early falling graph on an open baffle and the crossover- point will be around 200Hz - 300Hz (depending on room, placement and baffle- size) using the natural roll- off of the widebands. When you use a single woofer you will either loose stereo- image (when crossover at around 100 Hz) or you will get a curious sound listening to "bodied" voices, deep midrange from the woofer and the higher frequencies of the voice from the sattelites (when you crossover at 200Hz- 300Hz). You also need to built front- firing woofers and place them close to the widebands for creating a halfways unique wave- front above 100Hz when you want to achieve a satisfying imaging. Your drivers are not specially designed for open baffle- application, the resulting phase in the relatively wide- range crossover- region in combination with an active woofer will not be perfect even when you go for a phase- perfect crossover- design but when you use plate- amps with the possibility to tune the phase there is a good chance that the non- perfect phase- behaviour isn`t disturbing. Choose drivers with a very good lower midrange- sound, they`ll make more "music" than you expect - so better leave the heavy- cone long- excursion path for the woofers. When you use good sounding lightweight cone- drivers you can go for plate- amps with 3rd order- crossover for the woofers, the common rising efficiency of these kind of drivers from the basses to the midrange should result an acoustical crossover of around 12dB which should match ok. with the graph of the Supravox- drivers on the open baffles without filtering these, regard that active filtering the widebands also causes a lack of fine details.The Dragonfly- cabinets offer extended, fundamental and much more dynamic basses than expected when you look at their tiny size. Your drivers in this setup sound homogenous without all the possible problems caused by small drivers which are not specified for an open baffle- application in combination with active woofers. Feel free to adapt the Dragonfly cabinet- design, you can easy built an inexpensive trial- cabinet first and then decide if you are satisfied or if you want to go on with active woofers.
Prometheus is a proven design, all components are special designed for their application and there is harmony inbetween them, also the crossover- point to the woofers is deep enough to offer homogenous single- driver sound with superiour imaging. Probably it is more easy to switch to Prometheus than to adapt active woofers to your Supravox- drivers with satisfying result.
Please keep us posted.
Regards
Robert Bastani
Thx.
I have previous experience with an MLTL with this dimms....18"(wide)16,5"(deep)x45"(high) with an port 5" dia. put on the 3" distance from the bottom (lenght is 1"-to 3").The driver is mounted on the 8" (center of driver) from the upper.The damping material is on 30" fill from the upper panel.
So ...that is big enclosure.But is not that stomach hammer punch...you know...that is missing.I compare that with my small Technics (6,5" middle bass driver) in bass-reflex enclosure.On that speakers the bass shaking the floor but lack in details,voices and instruments.
The burn in perioud is probabily an issue?
My driver have an fs=52hz,qts=0,53 and an xmax.=4mm.
If I made an open baffle probabily I cutt on 200-300hz with an active sub.The Supravox will be free ...without any filter.
The amp from the sub. will have phase pot.(0...180 degree),cutt-off pot. 4th order Linkwitz pot. gain switch(x10) and volume potentiometer.
What do you think?
The Dragonfly ...I don't know what kind of enclosure is ...but I think is something in between Voigt and backloaded horn.
Do you think if I build the Dragonfly will have more bass comparing with my huge MLTL?
Please advice me to choose the right driver for an good sub. and if you could ...more details about Dragonfly enclosure?
Thx.
Vali
Hi Vali,i suspect the Dragonfly style- cabinets will offer you everything you are looking for, they also are easy to built and elegant looking. There are no comparable constuctions out there as far as i know - imagine that it is a bass reflex- enclosure using a port which is larger than the cabinet for a very good port- efficiency similar to a horn - or imagine that it is a very short horn which is floor- loaded to get a bigger virtual mouth- opening (like a corner- horn). This cabinets are a perfect fit for your room and placement, they need a solid wall in a distance up to 1,5m max. behind them to work corectly. I can send you are hardcopy of the cabinet- plan when you send me your adress as a p.n. (never write your adress in an internet- forum).
When you want to start directly with the active woofers two Eminence Delta 12LF which are reasonable priced should work ok. in a 60liters sealed enclosure each.Regards
Robert Bastani
I forgot to mention.....maybe you could advice me to choose an decent 10" sub....
I'm thinking on Peerless(10") or an Pioneer(auto)....what do you think?
Thx.
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