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In Reply to: RE: Consider PSUD 2 and mikeyb's supply posted by dave slagle on August 25, 2012 at 15:39:37:
Dave,Well, I think I understand your post. Thanks.
I spent most of my audio building life, from about 1983 (when I did my first DHT amp), till 2006, twenty six years, listening to power supplies. Mr. Fulton laid down the law early, THREE things (1) chokes under twenty Ohms DCR if I can find them, and (2) "oversize the current rating" of the Power Transformer and (3) No single L/C sections, always double, its smoother and more refined sounding , L1/C1/L2/C2. I listened to ALL three of his guidelines, to confirm them directly with my ears, - and it did. No simulations back then, no internet. Prior to 1983 I was lightly modding exiting-amplifier supplies, for maybe five years 1978-83).
For me, it wasn't until I switched over to a modern supply, with guidance from Dennis Fraker, and posts from on this forum, that "everything" came together. I didn't need ANY simulations to immediately appreciate and understand what I was hearing, and I reported it up here in glowing terms.
I taught myself PSUD 2 in 2006, after John Swenson posted about the good correlation between what he measured on scopes, what he was hearing (and liking), and what he got from PSUD 2 simulations.
Like you, I am not 100% sure of the correlations between simulations, and what I hear. But I am 100% sure of what I hear using a modern supply.
I use PSUD 2 as a double check, to model my supply optimizations, and, to "talk" to other Forum members with something other than just a subjective description. "Show me the numbers", and a simulation helps that process. Alsao, if John Swenson says PSUD 2 models close to what he sees on a scope, I believe him.
I often intuitively wonder this : "do we measure the correct things", and "what should be given priority??" I think we often look at the wrong things, and in far too simplistic of terms.
That is where the ear can be handy to a good amplifier designer.
One caveat Dave, if you really DO build amps out of clip leaded connections, I am NOT surprised if you do not hear the differences in step-test simulations, versus your actual circuits. Without wide band wire connections, of proper types, and proper lengths, you leave a lot of fidelity out of any modern power supply design, especially if, in a modern supply, we are shooting for maximum DYNAMIC expression.
Multiple use of long clip leads, compared to a short (point to point) 13 gauge soldered Siltech wire lengths, will MIS-lead you consistently down the primrose path, towards making wrong audio listening conclusions. I am guessing, this is possibly and likely your underlying problem.
I have personally A-Bed one, two, three clip leads in parallel, in ALL circuit locations (AMAZINGLY, on the VERY FIRST night I tried LSES) and later on, I A-Bed multiple TCSS leads in parallel. No way can you get the dynamic expression "proper", using single clip leads for audio connections.
I do not doubt what you say you heard. But I believe you are not hearing it right.....ever. The clip lead "ZIGS", let me add a "ZAG" to get the whole thing to balance-out. Each part, should stand on its own and be terribly honest.
If I was still living on the East Coast, I would love to truck an amp over to NYC and we could do some A-B comparisons. We would BOTH learn something. However, Dave, I am "stuck in the middle" (of the USA), and shy on a reference-quality high efficiency speaker system at home presently, so, we can't do much together.
But I certainly want you to know, (a) I am pleased you are on the audio scene, you are bright and certainly multi-talented and (b) I am much happier when I can understand your posts, as I did above !! Funny, eh ?? !!
Jeff Medwin
EDITED..... to include my ideas of the use of Clip Leads.
Edits: 08/25/12
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Follow Ups
- RE: Consider PSUD 2 and mikeyb's supply - drlowmu 19:43:42 08/25/12 (3)
- RE: Consider PSUD 2 and the munchausen reply. - dave slagle 22:00:41 08/25/12 (2)
- RE: Consider PSUD 2 and the munchausen reply. - Tre' 09:22:31 08/26/12 (0)
- RE: Consider PSUD 2 and the munchausen reply. - drlowmu 22:09:07 08/25/12 (0)
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