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Shady Lane Retailers, Manufacturers, ePay, AudiogoN, Paypal or whatever. Buying and selling advice. |
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Shady Lane Retailers, Manufacturers, ePay, AudiogoN, Paypal or whatever. Buying and selling advice. |
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In Reply to: RE: Anyone have shipping issue's with Elf Audio. posted by audiophile36 on June 15, 2009 at 17:35:39:
Rudolffzigray vs Audiophile36: Other transaction related problem
Problem: Other transaction related problem
06-11-2009: Rudolffzigray initiated process
06-12-2009: Audiophile36 submitted response
Rudolffzigray describes the events as follows:
I am reporting a scam by another member. I have already been in contact with another member who was a victim of the same scam.
On 5/14/09 I sent Audiophile36 $861.00 via PayPal for a pair of Audience AU 24e speaker cables listed on your site.
On 5/21/09 I still have not received the package. I contacted the Seller and checked through all my emails and found only a delivery confirmation number that the seller called a tracking number, 0308 2040 0000 3715 6177. When I checked on the package via USPS, the site told me my package was delivered on Tuesday. I was at my PayPal shipping address all day and no package of any kind was delivered that day. I contacted the USPS via phone immediately and they told me that the service Audiophile36 used, does not require a signature, can not be tracked and has no address attached to the confirmation number. They could not provide me any information on the package, weight, dimensions, nothing. Also, there was no insurance on the 861 dollar speaker cables. I couldn’t believe it.
I contacted the seller immediately and asked why he used an inadequate shipping service. He replied,
I'm very sorry for this inconvenience. I have heard of the horror stories concerning USPS,but I use them almost every time and have never had any problems like this before. I checked the tracking number and it did say it was delivered. I have your address written down on the delivery confirmation slip, and it matches your confirmed PayPal address. You are out of $861.00 and I am out of the cables....this sucks for us both
If you simply look at his feedback this is a lie. I prove it below. He has had issues with the USPS. How am I out 861 dollars he has my money? Also he continues to use the term tracking number when it is not.
In another email he states…
Anyhow, give me a couple days to see what happened to the package,worse case scenario I can offer you $861.00 worth of my Golden speaker cables and interconnects shipped via FedEx Ground.
Why give me your cables? How about my money? Sell your cables and give me my money.
I again tell him that the service he used was inadequate, that no member with his experience would ship an item worth 861 dollars without insurance or a direct signature. He also made claims that he sent a tracking number when in fact it is simply a delivery confirmation number. There was no way to track the item and no delivery address can be looked up, or any information for that matter with the number he provided. I told him that I did not want 861 dollars worth of his cables, I want a full refund.
The seller did not seem concerned with the situation, his emails were very nonchalant and he made no effort that I could tell, to try and locate the package. I did everything in my power to get information from the USPS and it was hopeless. The service he used to ship the package, gave the USPS no liability what so ever. The package was shipped with no value what so ever.
In my frustration, I continued to email the seller the first 48hrs to try and resolve the issue. I asked him to call me.
Audiophile36 emails me
Bottom line...I will not refund a purchase that according to USPS was delivered to you.Now if you can forward me some proof from the postal service that your cables didn't arrive,I will be willing to work out a refund.
I file a dispute with PayPal and the seller sends me another email
I will no longer work with you because you filed a claim with paypal,I will let paypal handle this. I'm pretty confident that I will not be held responsible for you not receiving your cables. In the mean time,you will still be out of $861.00,so I don't see the point.
To make us both happy,I will honor my offer of $400.00 plus a pair of my Super Helix Gold speaker cables in the length of your choice,plus two pair of matching interconnects if you cancel the paypal dispute.
So I cancel my PayPal dispute. At this point I am simply relieved to be getting something back. I failed to realize when I drop the complaint, I could never re-open it. Audiophile36 understood it, the representative for PayPal told me so. Apparently I am not the first. They did submit everything to their Fraud department and I was advised to contact the FBI
After a week, June 2nd, I still don’t have 400 dollars or the cables… I email him asking how long it will be and he tells me he is waiting on spades. I say use bananas and please ship. We agreed in several emails to use a Postal Money order for my refund. I tell him to simply include a postal money order with my cables in the package. When I finally get the package, I opened it up and all that is in there were cables, no money order? I immediately email him and ask where my money order is? Audiophile36 tells me he put 400 dollars cash in the envelope with my cables. The cables came in a shipping envelope, he told me he put 400 dollars in between the cables. Who would put 400 dollars cash in a shipping envelope when he supposedly just had an issue where a package disappeared out of thin air??
See this whole thing just doesn’t smell right, so I start to investigate and I come across another member who had the same experience as I did with Audiophile36. He bought an item that was not his cables. He never received the package. And audiophile36 gave him a partial refund and some of his cables… Here is a copy and paste. I have only taken out a few specifics so he can not be identify if this dispute gets posted. In case this ends up on your site for other members input. I believe he would like to remain anonymous at this time. I could ask him to come forward? The member did leave feedback for Audiophile36 and talks about a problem with USPS in Janurary of this year.
Hello. My comments refer to a situation where I bought an
expensive ($500+)cd player from him and never received it. After
much back and forth with both ELF and USPS, I am still undecided about what
happened.
ELF said he shipped it to me but could not provide relevant backup data. He
said he did not keep USPS receipts for long. USPS said the tracking number
provided by ELF was for a very small package- a cable, I believe, which is
what I think he mainly sells- sent around the time of my "scheduled"
delivery to a nearby address, but not MY address. He said the
package was insured, but that USPS would not pay up on the insurance because
the package WAS in fact delivered, just not my package (which would have
weighed 20 lbs).
Since his documentation was fuzzy and the USPS had their documentation
painting a different story, I tentatively concluded that ELF had never
mailed a package TO ME (I have a 90% feeling this). However, there is a
slight chance (10%) that he told the truth and the USPS lost the package.
ELF did work out a deal with me involving some cash back and a few sets of
his Gold Helix ICs. These came through OK and the product is good.
That is my view on things.
See Audiophile36 is running a small scam on your website and using his positive feedback as leverage, its pretty genius actually. He is listing items other than his cable’s that he knows will sell. The items are in the 500-1000 dollar range. Not enough to really piss someone off and not too little to be a waste of time. All of his items at the time had pictures except for the Au 24e cables I bought off him, because he didn’t have them. I have detailed pictures of his listings that show all his listing with pictures except my item I purchased. He then ships a package or envelope with a service you can’t track to a location nearby. When it’s delivered he uses the worthless delivery confirmation number as an argument. After the buyer realizes he or she could be screwed. Audiophile36 offers some money back and his cheap cables. The Buyer is relieved to be getting something and the scam goes unnoticed. Audiophile36 gets to sell some of his inexpensive cables at a very good price. In my case, a very very good price. Otherwise why wouldn’t he just sell some of his cables and give you a full refund?
I am certain there are more people out there with the same experience. Audiophile36 has not provided me with any documentation. I have asked for documentation several times and nothing. I would like to see the actual receipt and paper work of the AU 24e cables. He should be able to provide the original documentation that states he shipped a package to my address. Not an address near by.
Now I am not sure what stunts this gentleman is going to try and pull. He calls me the Scam Artist. He may have more positive feedback than me, but my feedback is very good and it has come from transactions worth thousands of dollars. Not from selling 100 dollar cables. This gentleman is using his positive feedback to exploit other members to indirectly buy his cables at a high price. I was totally convinced he made a foolish mistake at first. I am now convinced that nothing could be further from the truth.
I spoke with this gentleman on the phone. His character also validates my conclusions. There are also threads on audioasylum regarding concerns for the validity of his advertisements. Meaning is the materials stated in his ad, actually used?
Please do not allow this to go unnoticed. I have never had an issue on your site and I have been a member as far back as 1999 under a different username. My original username and password were lost when I took a hiatus.
He never sent my item in the first place. He lied about never having issues with the USPS service he used. He then strikes a deal for a 400 dollar money order and his cables. When I received the envelope there is no money order, just cables. His claim to fame now is that he put 400 dollars in the envelope with the cables. He has no documentation of the original shipment.
He now states he is done, that I am a scam artist that has his AU 24e cables, Money and his elf cables. When I sent him the other members email and exposed his scam, he has disappeared.
Rudolffzigray is requesting the following resultion:
I would love a full refund, but I doubt I will get it.
I believe this gentlemans account should be suspended permanently.
Negative feedback as well.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Audiophile36 describes the events as follows:
I sent Rudolffzigray the Au24e speaker cables on May 15th which according to the post office was delivered to him on May 17th the USPS tracking number for all to see is 0308 2040 0000 3715 6177. He later emails me and says that he didn't receive the cables,so I checked the tracking number and it clearly says it was delivered to him. After several emails back and forth,I decided that I would give him $400 of his money back and some of my cables to make him happy. I gave Rudy $400 cash a 10ft pair of speaker cables,a 1M and 2M pair of interconnects.This time I shipped it via Fedex with Signature confirmation and $1000.00 insurance. I checked the tracking number to see when the package was delivered and I emailed Him the day it was signed for to see if he has received the package. Rudy did not reply to the email until the next day stating that he received the cables,but no money. I asked Rudolffzigray did the package appear to be tampered with in any way and he says no,I asked Rudolffzigray did any body else handle the package and Rudolffzigray states he was the only person at his address the time of delivery. I found that strange and checked the tracking info on the FedEx website and found out the package was signed for by a B Hodge,not Rudolffzigray. I actually thought that it may have been an honest mistake with the post office,until I shipped his partial refund and cables with Fedex with Direct Signature and $1000.00 insurance only for him to claim he got the cables,but no money.Bottom line Rudolffzigray is a scam artist who took my kindness for a weakness and got a free pair of Au24e speaker cables, three pair of my cables and $400.00.
I have been selling on Audiogon for the past 7 years and have earned great feedback and a great reputation and if anyone checks my feedback,I have completed several positive transactions since this Rudolffzigray incident. Rudolffzigray on the other hand has limited feedback and has nowhere near the volume of transactions I have on Audiogon and should not be trusted.
If anybody wants to view all the shipping details pertaining to this dispute please see below.
The USPS Delivery Confirmation number for Au24e speaker cables:0308 2040 0000 3715 6177
FedEx tracking Number for refund and cables:755667410061095
Audiophile36's proposed resolution:
This matter should be dismissed and Rudolffzigray account should be permanately suspended for fraud.
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Rudolffzigray's rebuttal:
Again, does anyone find it funny that a member with so much experience as he states, ships an 861 dollar item with no insurance, no tracking number, no direct signature. The number that audiophile36 refers to as a delivery confirmation number is 0308 2040 0000 3715 6177 tells us nothing. It is the same thing he used with the other member. When I asked him why he used such an inadequate service, he tells me he never had a problem with USPS or the service he used. He says he heard the horror stories though, of course. In his feedback in January of 09, it states he had a problem. I will simply ask one question, and one question only. Show me the paperwork that states you sent a box, (what he tells me, 10x12x12 brown box) to my address....
XXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXX
...on May 15th, and I will walk away. An absolute original document, not a modified copy.
He avoids this question and keeps pointing to the delivery confirmation number. The United States Post Office can not tell me anything about this number. No address, no description, no weight, no nothing. Because he shipped an empty box or envelope to a nearby location. He knew with his feedback and offering me cables he could get away with it. He has done it before.
Look at my original posts where he says, Worst case scenario I will give you 861 dollars of my cables...When I refuse, he tells me he wont work with me. When I file a complaint with paypal, he writes, too make us both happy! I will give you 400 dollars and some of my cables...
Now he says he did it out of kindness.
I am telling you, he is running a small scam periodically with members. There are more people out there.
Also, now he states I said I was the only one there when the package was received. I never said that... and its irrelevant. He says I have limited feedback? I have completed over 60 transactions and a feedback rating of 200+ all positive. I did not acquire this feedback selling 100 dollar cables that I twist with a drill in my home. It comes from selling gear, costing thousands of dollars. I am especially known for selling moving coil cartridges. The ultimate test of ones character. Because of the limited life, and easy to fudge condition of these items. If you were to ad up the cost of our transactions, mine will easily out weigh Audiophile36. I have no reason to try and scam anyone out of 861 dollars. No way. He states, I got a free pair of Au24e speaker cables, three pair of my cables and $400.00. If this were actually true, wouldnt that be enough? Now I want to dispute it on audiogon and expose my scam? Come on this guy is too much. The reason I am here and initiated a dispute is because I have been scammed.
Why would I take this angle. Because I know he is running a scam. You can buy all the ELF cables you want...that is a safe bet. He will, by all means, sell you his cables. But when he needs a little extra money, he lists an item other than his cables and pulls this crap. Also when this all first went down, I took a picture of all his listings (there were several). All the listings had pictures except the AU 24e cables. I have these pictures and can offer email them to whoever. I have another member, with the exact same incident, who was 90 percent sure Audiophile36 did not send him anything and he left positive feedback because he was simply relieved to get something. Its the perfect scam. What was he doing with AU24e cables anyway...the hottest selling cable under a thousand dollars. Surely no body traded these cables for his. Can he give us the member he bought them from? Audiogon, you should see this transaction in his feedback. You keep very accurate records of the items bought, sold and their cost. Did he buy a 10' pair of AU 24e cables off another member?
Of course in the recent month that this transaction transpired he has beefed up his odd items selling tubes of little worth to generate positive feedback to make it look like he is an honest member with items besides his cables and he makes sure he mentions it.
Members please look at the facts........
Irregardless, the bottom line is, he sent an 861 dollar item without insurance and without a direct signature requirement. He used a service that cannot be tracked. He shipped an $861 dollar item inadequately and now he is helping me out with his cables.
He placed no liability on the shipper and took a risk with my 861 dollars. If he actually did ship my Au 24e cables, (which I doubt) he simply put them in a box and took them to the post office and told the USPS that this box is of no consequence. It has no value and there for there is no risk in shipping it. Do with it as you wish. Every member here with significant feedback would never do such a thing...never. Not with a pair of cables that list for 1800 and were just sold for 861 dollars.
He told me he would work with me after I filed a complaint with paypal: 400 dollars and some of his cables if I drop the complaint. I am not unreasonable, so I accept his offer even though I did not and do not want his cables. I want my AU 24e cables. When I finally get the envelope, that's right an envelope, it has the cables but no money order. I specifically asked for a money order. He tells me he put cash, because he dont have a receipt for the money order either.
Who puts 400 dollars CASH in an envelope and ships it? Nobody!,and he didnt either. How can anyone believe this?
Please look through his feedback and confirmation number, he is hiding behind it.
I am now out 861 dollars, and have nothing to show for it but his golden helix speaker cables and two pair of interconnects. They were twisted with a drill, they have no insulation, and are not gold. They have no value...If I put them all on audiogon I would be lucky to get 200 dollars. I am stuck with them.
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As of 06-14-2009, Audiogon is requesting input from members regarding this dispute.
Audiogon (Threads | Answers)
06-14-09
Closed for Input
Only the two Disputants may post now
This thread is no longer accepting general input.
Only the two disputants may post their follow ups about resolution.
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Follow Ups
- RE: Anyone have shipping issue's with Elf Audio. - rzigray@wrmills.com 17:53:54 06/15/09 (0)
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