Home SET Asylum

Single Ended Triodes (SETs), the ultimate tube lovers dream.

[ Follow Ups ] [ Post Followup ] Thread: [ Display  All  Email ] [ SET Asylum ]
[ Alert Moderator ]

RE: Nobody here ever said tubes don't need break in. (nt)

I won't debate double-blind here with you because it has been done ad nauseum. Suffice to say that I don't think it applicable to audio testing and you apparently do think it appicable.

I have heard things that stunned the hell out of people...ones who were totally unbiased or in fact biased towards the amp that sounded attrocious. They were not audiophiles...just seeking my help for a decent system. We first got new speakers and a cd player (they didn't have one) and then we went looking for an amp. After hearing a few and looking at the prices they asked, "Can't we just keep what we have?". I said sure, but let's just have a couple of the ones you liked there for comparison. They hooked up the Cary CAD572SE (nice amp actually) with a Transcendent Sound GG preamp and were groving to the sound. Then we hooked up their Denon integrated...and the smile ran away from their faces...like instantly. The girl, "OMG, that sounds bad!"...the guy "It is so gray and dead". I said nothing, except "should we try the other amp again?" They said yes, music returned and they bought the Carys and Transcendent and gave the Denon away. The speakers were the tube friendly AudioPlan Kontrast IIIs. Nice two-ways, easy impedance moderate sensitivity. I know it's anecdotal but after having SO many of these kinds of experiences with non-audiophiles hearing differences for the first time like that as well as my own extensive experience in Single blind studies (did it with cables and with preamps mostly), I don't think there is much doubt in the difference in the sound of electronics.


"I like making and using tube amplifiers largely for nostalgic and aesthetic reasons, I suppose. I don't have particularly strong feelings or opinions one way or the other about whether they sound better, or worse, than solid-state amplifiers."

You expect me to believe this? I don't. You make them and use them because you obviously prefer the sound to SS amps...or you would be making and using those too, no? Do you even own a SS amp?

"According to what one can read (for example in the accounts of the Richard Clark "amplifier challenge"), even alleged experts are unable to distinguish between the sound of a tube amplifier and a solid-state amplifier, provided that neither has particularly large distortion, and provided that the frequency response of (typically) the solid state amplifier is downgraded with simple RC networks (and maybe a series resistor on the output) to match that of the tube amplifier. "

IMO, once you start modifying the amps to "match" you can call the whole thing off. That would be like me saying "let's add a bit of active compound to the placebo to make them more similar" or some such nonsense.

One should simply use a loudspeaker where the impedance of the speaker is high enough not to impact the FR significantly. You could even have one high and one low sensitivity if you think that this matters.

"I sympathise with people's desire to imagine an intricate world of ultra-fine nuances in the sound that their favourite amplifier produces. And in fact, it may be that in a sense their imagining these nuances does actually bring them into being, via the incredibly complex interplay of the senses and the human mind. But if theses nuances cannot be demonstrated and verified in objective listening tests, it is surely more honest to recognise them for what they evidently are, namely imagined effects that exist in the mind of the listener?"

Stop playing with OTLs, they are apparently too good for your needs.

"My homemade amplifiers are mostly OTL, and one is an ultra-linear push-pull"

I have had both. Neither was fully satisfying so far. I will try SET OTL at some point though just to see. Most PP ultra-liner amps simply don't sound right; either too lean (too much feedback usually) or too warm (transformer saturation) or a combination of the two (both problems). The VAC 30/30 is a really nice sound PP Triode amp though...not too warm and great bass and extension in the highs without glassiness.

THe Trnascendent Sounds were not stable on my Acoustats so they didn't stay long (would oscillate after a few mW). The Silvawelds made the room too hot to stand but were stunning in their transparency. However, they were a bitch to keep biased AND they did not have the coherence of a top SET (of course if you don't accept that these things are audible it is not really possible to discuss this nuance with you). It is perhaps something that is only really an issue with a time coherent, single driver speaker (like my Acoustats). The other issue was that tonally they were somewhat leaner than I hear in real-live concerts (of the unamplified sort). I heard just the other day a small concert with accordian, guitar, violin and bass. I stood 2 meters away. The sound was powerful and harmonically RICH...even a bit lush. No amps or speakers just instruments. It was unlike anything I have heard from a SS amp driven system.


" I think, that SET may give distortions, or perhaps colourations is a nicer word, that would exceed the bounds"

Based on my research, really top SET amps are LESS colored in the ways that are most objectionable to listeners. People are so used to bleached out sound that they think the SET is "adding" euphonic colorations.

"and such that even a dyed-in-the-wool objectivist like myself could hear a difference"

I find it hard to believe you are a "dyed-in-the-wool" objectivist when you use "bad" measuring tube amps.

This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors:
  Schiit Audio  

Follow Ups Full Thread
Follow Ups
FAQ

Post a Message!

 Forgot Password?
Moniker (Username):
Password (Optional):
  Remember my Moniker & Password  (What's this?)    Eat Me
E-Mail (Optional):
Subject:
Message:   (Posts are subject to Content Rules)
Optional Link URL:
Optional Link Title:
Optional Image URL:
Upload Image:
E-mail Replies:  Automagically notify you when someone responds.

[ Top Top of Page ] [ Contact Us ] [ Support/Wish List ] [ Copyright © 2024, Audio Asylum, all rights reserved ]
[ General ] [ Speakers ] [ Tubes ] [ Vinyl ] [ Digital ] [ Hi-Rez ] [ Video Asylum ] [ Cables ] [ Tweaks/DIY ] [ Music ] [ Films ]