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Here's my challenge to you.

Posted by David Aiken (A) on January 21, 2008 at 14:16:08

In Reply to: It is Toole's views, not mine!!! posted by KlausR. on January 21, 2008 at 06:40:57:

I'm going to pull the discussion about reflections and whether or not they're a problem back to the specific case of the original query in this thread.

You comment that the "too many reflections" mentioned in Linkwitz's summary refers to reverberation but you jumped into this thread concerning a cube shaped room, of all shapes, and said nothing more than "Floyd Toole, arguably the world's leading expert when it comes to the loudspeaker/room interface, says that reflections are not problems." Standing wave behaviour is a reflection phenomena and standing waves in a cube are particularly problematic because there is only one axial frequency and it's strongly reinforced because all 3 axes have the same frequency. Room response also smooths out as frequency increases because there are more standing waves per octave. With different axial lengths supplying different standing wave frequencies, that response will smooth out more quickly in a room with 3 different axial dimensions than it will in a cube so not only will room response in a cube be more problematic because of the extreme strength of the standing waves it generates, that behaviour will also be problematic over a wider range than it would in most normal, rectangular rooms.

Tell me, do you think Toole would say that there are no reflection problems in a cube given standing wave behaviour in a cube? I somehow doubt it.

Of course you may have meant to say that first reflections aren't a problem rather than standing waves but you didn't say that. You didn't qualify your statement in any way. You simply said to a person with a cube for a room that Toole says reflections are not problems, thereby implying that there are no problems at all.

So rather than fight any more about whether reflections are ever a problem when we both agree that they sometimes are (you are committed to that in the case of reverberation at the very least) let's change the nature of the discussion here very simply and give you the chance to say something of practical value.

What advice would you give to a person with a cube shaped room who wants to use that space as a listening room? You can cover speaker placement, listening location, and room treatment. Where would you put the speakers, where would you put the listening chair, and would you do anything about acoustic room treatment in a cube with 12' sides and height?

In this particular case the original poster also said "I really like detail, imaging, and really enjoy hearing the soundstage extend outside the speakers. I guess I like everything! (incidentally I hear the soundstage often extending on the right side where the boundary is bare drywall, almost never on the left where the boundary is a large blinds-covered window)" so please take those tastes and the left/right asymmetry into consideration in your response.

I'm not going to bother responding to any more theoretical points here, but I'm prepared to discuss practical suggestions for the original poster if you have any. You've done the reading so now here's your chance to apply it and offer practical advice. Ethan and I have had our say. Since you disagree with our views what would you do in this specific room? Don't say what is or isn't a problem unless you're prepared to say why it isn't a problem in this particular room and give reasons in terms of acoustic behaviour, not "Toole says it isn't a problem" but you can, if you like, say WHY Toole or anyone else thinks that a particular aspect is or is not a problem in a cube.

This forum was intended to be a practical one and theory is really only useful if it can be applied practically so here's your chance to apply theory as you understand it and to provide helpful advice. If you can't do that, then all of your reading and theory is worthless in this forum. Criticising others is of value here only if you can offer alternatives with practical value and so far I haven't ever seen you offer any practical advice to anyone. You only ever seem to say why you think the advice others offer is wrong and you never seem to offer any practical advice of your own. Here's your opportunity to do so. There tends to be general agreement that a cube is the worst shape for a listening room and we have a cube here. What would you do with it?



David Aiken

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