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Propeller Head Plaza Technical and scientific discussion of amps, cables and other topics. |
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Propeller Head Plaza Technical and scientific discussion of amps, cables and other topics. |
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In Reply to: Straw dog! posted by Rod M on August 1, 2003 at 15:30:38:
In a published double-blind test (Larry Greenhill in Stereo Review
I believe) 11 of 11 participants could hear differences between
30 feet of 12+AWG Monster Cable and 30 feet of 24AWG zip cord when volumes were NOT matched. After volumes were matched only 4 of 10 participants could hear differences (I don't know what happened to #11 -- maybe he was a golden ear "WireNut" who died of embarassment,
or rapid ego deflation, after failing to hear wire differences?).Amazing that with the use of an extra-long 30 feet of non-audio grade extra-thin 24AWG wire ... only 4 of 10 audiophiles could hear a difference versus 12AWG Monster Cable under double-blind conditions!
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Follow Ups Full ThreadTopic - Golden Ears and Audible Differences: A New Test - Bayside Bomber 06:38:06 08/01/03 (199)
- Unless human factor is taken out, the results will be tainted. - Tony Montana 22:23:36 08/02/03 (2)
- Please explain - E-Stat 10:17:21 08/10/03 (0)
- catch-22 - mfc 23:38:20 08/02/03 (0)
- Re: Golden Ears and Audible Differences: A New Test - mfc 22:33:49 08/01/03 (0)
- Very impressive - Norm Strong 19:49:06 08/01/03 (0)
- What I recommend...and have done... - rp1@surfnetusa.com 18:03:44 08/01/03 (3)
- Very interesting! - Pete H 11:00:26 08/07/03 (0)
- Your experiments don't count. - clarkjohnsen 06:59:01 08/02/03 (1)
- If you're a nudist would you still say "where the sun don't shine"? -t - rp1@surfnetusa.com 07:03:03 08/02/03 (0)
- Reading between the lines - Bayside Bomber 13:00:06 08/01/03 (54)
- Link to real double-blind test documention - Richard BassNut Greene 09:48:52 08/05/03 (37)
- I know this is way after the fact... - Commuteman 15:32:53 08/12/03 (16)
- One thing you didn't know ... - Richard BassNut Greene 06:04:48 08/13/03 (15)
- I understand all that - Commuteman 09:53:58 08/13/03 (14)
- Number 3 result from blind audition that you forgot to list - Richard BassNut Greene 11:52:01 08/14/03 (13)
- That's number 1, and you missed the point entirely. - Commuteman 14:12:48 08/14/03 (12)
- Do you really have an open mind about wires -- maybe not? - Richard BassNut Greene 07:24:33 08/15/03 (11)
- Where's Enid Lumley and J. Peter Moncrieff .... - Sean 23:27:09 08/19/03 (0)
- Is this a record for the longest thread on Prop Head Plaza without mindless name calling? - Commuteman 16:53:54 08/15/03 (4)
- Are we breaking some rule on this forum? - Richard BassNut Greene 08:08:32 08/18/03 (0)
- Well, it could just be a coincidence.... - Charles Hansen 21:01:01 08/16/03 (0)
- Re: Is this a record for the longest thread on Prop Head Plaza without mindless name calling? - Ted Smith 20:10:49 08/15/03 (1)
- You're just waiting patiently for the mindless name calling to begin - Richard BassNut Greene 08:12:27 08/18/03 (0)
- Hell, I don't even trust my own impressions - Commuteman 16:50:26 08/15/03 (4)
- Actually the DBT's don't really "work" - Richard BassNut Greene 19:45:08 08/15/03 (3)
- Now THAT I will buy.... - Commuteman 19:20:52 08/16/03 (2)
- The best blind test of all -- of the Bedini CD Clarifier - Richard BassNut Greene 08:38:29 08/18/03 (1)
- Maybe the system sounded better just holding the Bedini and the CD at the same time? ;-) - Commuteman 12:38:57 08/18/03 (0)
- Please continue - E-Stat 10:21:26 08/10/03 (0)
- Re: Link to real double-blind test documention - kurt s 15:34:58 08/05/03 (15)
- The link was intended to inform about methodology -- not statistics - Richard BassNut Greene 06:04:22 08/06/03 (14)
- Same old, same old - Jon Risch 07:47:44 08/09/03 (8)
- Certainly your complaints apply to sighted auditions ... if they get "null" results - Richard BassNut Greene 10:32:00 08/11/03 (7)
- RG, you've hit the real issue... - Commuteman 10:14:28 08/13/03 (6)
- Double-blind test of Mini-disc and CD - Richard BassNut Greene 09:19:01 08/18/03 (5)
- Wait a minute! This means.. - Commuteman 14:49:09 08/18/03 (4)
- Can't get from here ... to there - Richard BassNut Greene 13:11:27 08/19/03 (3)
- You can't have it both ways - Commuteman 13:38:44 08/20/03 (2)
- Comparing your system today with its sound quality five years ago -- you must have a great memory! - Richard BassNut Greene 09:24:18 08/22/03 (1)
- I think we just reached the point of absurdity... - Commuteman 09:26:12 08/25/03 (0)
- Re: The link was intended to inform about methodology -- not statistics - Rod M 19:09:46 08/06/03 (1)
- Read your post ... before you press "Submit Follow Up"? - Richard BassNut Greene 04:48:50 08/07/03 (0)
- Re: The link was intended to inform about methodology -- not statistics - kurt s 08:19:27 08/06/03 (2)
- Re: The link was intended to inform about methodology -- not statistics - Commuteman 10:10:59 08/06/03 (1)
- Yes. That is a good example. nt - kurt s 10:37:10 08/06/03 (0)
- Re: Link to real double-blind test documention - Steve Eddy 10:37:58 08/05/03 (1)
- Of course there's an agenda -- it's advertising copy - Richard BassNut Greene 06:22:36 08/06/03 (0)
- I completely disagree with everything Rod M. says in response to this post - Richard BassNut Greene 10:22:56 08/05/03 (0)
- Re: Reading between the lines - jensw 16:00:29 08/01/03 (0)
- Re: Reading between the lines - Steve Eddy 13:26:57 08/01/03 (0)
- Ah, but you haven't "proven" them wrong... - Commuteman 13:06:18 08/01/03 (0)
- "I would wonder if the naysayers were simply being obstinate." - clarkjohnsen 13:06:15 08/01/03 (12)
- Re: "I would wonder if the naysayers were simply being obstinate." - Dan Banquer 13:34:45 08/01/03 (11)
- Re: "I would wonder if the naysayers were simply being obstinate." - Steve Eddy 14:35:13 08/01/03 (10)
- "Ah, but how do you KNOW it doesn't help, work or whatever?" - clarkjohnsen 06:52:37 08/02/03 (2)
- Re: "Ah, but how do you KNOW it doesn't help, work or whatever?" - Dan Banquer 09:28:33 08/04/03 (0)
- Re: Exactly. [nt] - alan m. kafton 16:30:47 08/03/03 (0)
- Re: "I would wonder if the naysayers were simply being obstinate." - Dan Banquer 15:02:16 08/01/03 (6)
- Re: But, how recently? - alan m. kafton 16:29:59 08/03/03 (5)
- Re: But, how recently? - Dan Banquer 09:24:50 08/04/03 (4)
- Re: Oh, Dan. Tsk, tsk...... - alan m. kafton 13:41:47 08/04/03 (3)
- Re: Oh, Dan. Tsk, tsk...... - Dan Banquer 12:49:21 08/05/03 (0)
- Re: Oh, Dan. Tsk, tsk...... - Steve Eddy 14:08:06 08/04/03 (1)
- Re: Steve....you *are* beating a dead horse. Move on, please. [nt] - alan m. kafton 15:02:48 08/04/03 (0)
- Re: Golden Ears and Audible Differences: A New Test - Todd Krieger 12:19:05 08/01/03 (4)
- "...or the QC of these power cords isn't so good." - clarkjohnsen 12:45:39 08/01/03 (3)
- Re: Then, of course...... - alan m. kafton 16:27:24 08/03/03 (1)
- Several more should be registered with the Missing Parameters Bureau. nt - clarkjohnsen 08:27:09 08/04/03 (0)
- Re: "...or the QC of these power cords isn't so good." - Dan Banquer 13:39:32 08/01/03 (0)
- Another wifely anecdote to attack - Commuteman 11:56:59 08/01/03 (5)
- Re: Another wifely anecdote to attack - john curl 12:55:50 08/01/03 (2)
- Actually, she's a geologist - Commuteman 13:02:58 08/01/03 (1)
- Re: Actually, she's a geologist - john curl 13:27:03 08/01/03 (0)
- Re: Another wifely anecdote to attack - Todd Krieger 12:38:27 08/01/03 (1)
- Yep. - Commuteman 12:59:29 08/01/03 (0)
- Statistically insignificant.... - Monstrous Mike 10:44:02 08/01/03 (15)
- Re: Statistically insignificant.... - kurt s 12:45:34 08/01/03 (3)
- Come on Kurt.... - Monstrous Mike 20:31:00 08/05/03 (1)
- Re: Come on Kurt.... - kurt s 18:52:53 08/06/03 (0)
- Re: Statistically insignificant.... - Pat D 08:41:31 08/02/03 (0)
- Re: Statistically insignificant.... - Bayside Bomber 12:41:07 08/01/03 (1)
- Nice try, Professor... - Monstrous Mike 21:52:15 08/05/03 (0)
- Re: Statistically insignificant.... - Todd Krieger 12:34:50 08/01/03 (8)
- You obviously don't play poker for money....nt - Monstrous Mike 11:53:03 08/04/03 (0)
- ESP - Adi 22:37:35 08/01/03 (1)
- Re: ESP - Pat D 07:50:15 08/02/03 (0)
- those big sings that said "good" and "bad" probably hurt... - sunnysal 13:43:45 08/01/03 (3)
- Re: those big sings that said "good" and "bad" probably hurt... - Todd Krieger 14:28:48 08/01/03 (2)
- all "real" scientists have good poker faces....(nt) - sunnysal 15:06:46 08/01/03 (1)
- All "real" scientists wear beards. ;-)> - gino 07:42:38 08/05/03 (0)
- Good question! nt - clarkjohnsen 12:53:25 08/01/03 (0)
- Re: Golden Ears and Audible Differences: A New Test - john curl 10:23:55 08/01/03 (1)
- Re: Golden Ears and Audible Differences: A New Test - Steve Eddy 11:01:28 08/01/03 (0)
- Re: Golden Ears and Audible Differences: A New Test - john curl 09:28:32 08/01/03 (16)
- Re: Golden Ears and Audible Differences: A New Test - Monstrous Mike 10:49:14 08/01/03 (0)
- Re: Golden Ears and Audible Differences: A New Test - Steve Eddy 09:48:22 08/01/03 (14)
- "Only if audio design is to throw science out the window." - clarkjohnsen 13:16:41 08/01/03 (13)
- Re: "Only if audio design is to throw science out the window." - david hull 17:36:03 08/01/03 (1)
- "Why can't a designer do both?" Indeed. However... - clarkjohnsen 06:48:14 08/02/03 (0)
- Re: "Only if audio design is to throw science out the window." - jensw 15:14:35 08/01/03 (0)
- Re: "Only if audio design is to throw science out the window." - Scott Frankland 14:20:44 08/01/03 (2)
- " But that doesn't mean that one day it won't." Yes, and... - clarkjohnsen 06:44:41 08/02/03 (1)
- Re: " But that doesn't mean that one day it won't." Yes, and... - Scott Frankland 11:31:05 08/02/03 (0)
- Re: "Only if audio design is to throw science out the window." - Steve Eddy 14:08:38 08/01/03 (3)
- "Why are so many people so insecure?" - clarkjohnsen 06:41:56 08/02/03 (2)
- Re: "Why are so many people so insecure?" - Steve Eddy 10:20:03 08/02/03 (1)
- "We'll never get those answers if subjective experience is asserted as objective fact." - clarkjohnsen 08:24:55 08/04/03 (0)
- Re: "Only if audio design is to throw science out the window." - Dan Banquer 13:32:18 08/01/03 (2)
- Re: "Only if audio design is to throw science out the window." - Steve Eddy 14:21:32 08/01/03 (1)
- Re: "Only if audio design is to throw science out the window." - Dan Banquer 15:07:33 08/01/03 (0)
- Re: Golden Ears and Audible Differences: A New Test - Steve Eddy 09:22:18 08/01/03 (0)
- Nothing new there - pburant 08:20:49 08/01/03 (22)
- Re: Nothing new there - Dan Banquer 09:18:30 08/01/03 (21)
- Measurements do NOT tell the full story - pburant 10:43:18 08/01/03 (20)
- "You can continue to try to remove the human from the audio system..." YES! - clarkjohnsen 12:59:08 08/01/03 (1)
- Re: "You can continue to try to remove the human from the audio system..." YES! - Dan Banquer 13:18:32 08/01/03 (0)
- Re: Measurements do NOT tell the full story - Dan Banquer 11:30:33 08/01/03 (17)
- Uhh...science - pburant 11:50:44 08/01/03 (1)
- Re: Uhh...science - Dan Banquer 12:21:15 08/01/03 (0)
- enlightened common sense - Commuteman 11:48:58 08/01/03 (2)
- Re: enlightened common sense - Pat D 08:50:19 08/02/03 (0)
- Excellent points... - Charles Hansen 22:22:54 08/01/03 (0)
- P.S. - Dan Banquer 11:45:20 08/01/03 (11)
- Only if you're claiming your additional measurements DO tell the whole story - pburant 11:54:37 08/01/03 (10)
- Re: Only if you're claiming your additional measurements DO tell the whole story - Dan Banquer 12:31:14 08/01/03 (9)
- How about if you answer the original question? - Charles Hansen 22:19:45 08/01/03 (8)
- Re: How about if you answer the original question? - Dan Banquer 03:43:27 08/02/03 (7)
- I think that all of those are important... - Charles Hansen 12:11:23 08/03/03 (6)
- Re: I think that all of those are important... - Dan Banquer 14:07:53 08/03/03 (5)
- Re: I think that all of those are important... - Steve Eddy 00:18:07 08/04/03 (2)
- Re: I think that all of those are important... - Dan Banquer 03:55:16 08/04/03 (1)
- Re: I think that all of those are important... - Steve Eddy 11:13:37 08/04/03 (0)
- If I understand you correctly... - Charles Hansen 21:18:43 08/03/03 (1)
- Re: If I understand you correctly... - Dan Banquer 03:50:06 08/04/03 (0)
- Try matching A-B volumes next time - Richard BassNut Greene 07:01:34 08/01/03 (64)
- Straw dog! - Rod M 15:30:38 08/01/03 (53)
- What are you drinking? - Richard BassNut Greene 10:32:21 08/05/03 (0)
- Absurd consequences - Pat D 18:30:14 08/02/03 (0)
- Re: Straw dog! - Steve Eddy 15:45:07 08/01/03 (50)
- Re: Straw dog! - Rod M 16:28:45 08/01/03 (49)
- Re: Grouchy Dog - Dan Banquer 04:34:25 08/03/03 (1)
- Re: Grouchy Dog - Rod M 17:55:58 08/04/03 (0)
- Re: Straw dog! - Pat D 07:36:11 08/02/03 (0)
- Re: Straw dog! - Steve Eddy 16:46:04 08/01/03 (45)
- I now recognize the exasperating thing about SE - kurt s 22:15:44 08/01/03 (44)
- Your exasperation is the result of your own dogmatism - Steve Eddy 00:39:07 08/02/03 (0)
- Okay, fair enough - kurt s 16:53:18 08/02/03 (39)
- Re: Okay, fair enough - $orabji! 09:59:52 08/03/03 (1)
- Re: Okay, fair enough - Steve Eddy 10:29:29 08/03/03 (0)
- Re: Okay, fair enough - Steve Eddy 20:15:56 08/02/03 (35)
- Re: Okay, fair enough - kurt s 22:27:24 08/02/03 (34)
- Re: Okay, fair enough - Steve Eddy 00:32:26 08/03/03 (0)
- Couldn't have said it better myself... - Charles Hansen 22:43:24 08/02/03 (32)
- Re: Couldn't have said it better myself... - Steve Eddy 00:38:30 08/03/03 (0)
- Re: Couldn't have said it better myself... - john curl 09:07:17 08/03/03 (30)
- Re: Couldn't have said it better myself... - john curl 10:51:49 08/03/03 (28)
- Re: Couldn't have said it better myself... - Steve Eddy 12:41:28 08/03/03 (27)
- Re: Couldn't have said it better myself... - john curl 15:04:52 08/03/03 (26)
- Re: Couldn't have said it better myself... - Steve Eddy 20:06:12 08/03/03 (25)
- Re: Couldn't have said it better myself... - john curl 21:27:54 08/03/03 (24)
- Re: Couldn't have said it better myself... - Steve Eddy 23:06:11 08/03/03 (23)
- Steve...I'd like to point out a few major errors in your post. - jneutron 07:13:16 08/04/03 (3)
- Re: Steve...I'd like to point out a few major errors in your post. - Steve Eddy 09:46:57 08/04/03 (2)
- Hmmmmm..... - jneutron 10:20:47 08/04/03 (1)
- Re: Hmmmmm..... - Steve Eddy 10:44:52 08/04/03 (0)
- Re: Couldn't have said it better myself... - john curl 01:17:07 08/04/03 (18)
- Re: Couldn't have said it better myself... - Steve Eddy 11:09:59 08/04/03 (4)
- Re: Couldn't have said it better myself... - john curl 14:22:38 08/04/03 (3)
- Re: Couldn't have said it better myself... - Steve Eddy 14:56:33 08/04/03 (2)
- Re: Couldn't have said it better myself... - john curl 15:56:40 08/04/03 (1)
- Bullshit.... - slope 17:03:57 08/06/03 (0)
- Hi John - jneutron 07:09:26 08/04/03 (12)
- Re: Hi John - john curl 08:12:50 08/04/03 (11)
- Re: Hi John - jneutron 08:40:39 08/04/03 (10)
- Re: Hi John - john curl 09:07:43 08/04/03 (9)
- Re: Hi John - jneutron 10:46:04 08/04/03 (8)
- Re: Hi John - Steve Eddy 11:16:51 08/04/03 (7)
- Re: Hi John - john curl 16:09:27 08/04/03 (6)
- Re: Couldn't have said it better myself... - Steve Eddy 09:25:16 08/03/03 (0)
- Re: Okay, fair enough - john curl 18:42:08 08/02/03 (0)
- "That's the whole problem, Kurt, SIDES!" BRAVO! - Pat D 07:06:29 08/02/03 (2)
- Re: "That's the whole problem, Kurt, SIDES!" BRAVO! - Steve Eddy 10:38:06 08/02/03 (1)
- Re: "That's the whole problem, Kurt, SIDES!" BRAVO! - Pat D 09:48:44 08/04/03 (0)
- Re: Try matching A-B volumes next time - Todd Krieger 12:28:26 08/01/03 (4)
- I call this "The Myth of Level Matching". - clarkjohnsen 13:03:52 08/01/03 (3)
- OK, but irrelevant. - Pat D 18:20:42 08/02/03 (0)
- Throughput? - david hull 21:18:09 08/01/03 (0)
- Re: I call this "The Myth of Level Matching". - Dan Banquer 13:20:19 08/01/03 (0)
- Re: Try matching A-B volumes next time - Bayside Bomber 08:09:47 08/01/03 (4)
- A*U*D*I*O*P*H*I*L*E'S .......W*I*V*E*S - Richard BassNut Greene 09:34:15 08/01/03 (0)
- Re: Try matching A-B volumes next time - Dan Banquer 08:19:08 08/01/03 (2)
- Re: Try matching A-B volumes next time - Pat D 08:30:16 08/02/03 (0)
- Re: Try matching A-B volumes next time - david hull 21:25:57 08/01/03 (0)
Follow Ups
- What are you drinking? - Richard BassNut Greene 10:32:21 08/05/03 (0)
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