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Propeller Head Plaza Technical and scientific discussion of amps, cables and other topics. |
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Propeller Head Plaza Technical and scientific discussion of amps, cables and other topics. |
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In Reply to: "Only if audio design is to throw science out the window." posted by clarkjohnsen on August 1, 2003 at 13:16:41:
Why can't a designer do both? My guess is that if you tour the development lab of any manufacturer of electronics for audio you will see distortion analyzers, audio signal generators, O-Scopes, maybe a spectrum analyzer etc. These are tools that most engineers use as part of the normal dev process.I would also guess that they listen to the stuff they design when it is done to see how it sounds. Just the same as the guy that designed a new BMW (or some small part of it) takes it for a drive the first chance he gets.
While it may be the case for Guitars and Violins, I guarantee you that nothing as complex as a CDP or an audio amp is designed by just listening.
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Follow Ups Full ThreadTopic - Golden Ears and Audible Differences: A New Test - Bayside Bomber 06:38:06 08/01/03 (199)
- Unless human factor is taken out, the results will be tainted. - Tony Montana 22:23:36 08/02/03 (2)
- Please explain - E-Stat 10:17:21 08/10/03 (0)
- catch-22 - mfc 23:38:20 08/02/03 (0)
- Re: Golden Ears and Audible Differences: A New Test - mfc 22:33:49 08/01/03 (0)
- Very impressive - Norm Strong 19:49:06 08/01/03 (0)
- What I recommend...and have done... - rp1@surfnetusa.com 18:03:44 08/01/03 (3)
- Very interesting! - Pete H 11:00:26 08/07/03 (0)
- Your experiments don't count. - clarkjohnsen 06:59:01 08/02/03 (1)
- If you're a nudist would you still say "where the sun don't shine"? -t - rp1@surfnetusa.com 07:03:03 08/02/03 (0)
- Reading between the lines - Bayside Bomber 13:00:06 08/01/03 (54)
- Link to real double-blind test documention - Richard BassNut Greene 09:48:52 08/05/03 (37)
- I know this is way after the fact... - Commuteman 15:32:53 08/12/03 (16)
- One thing you didn't know ... - Richard BassNut Greene 06:04:48 08/13/03 (15)
- I understand all that - Commuteman 09:53:58 08/13/03 (14)
- Number 3 result from blind audition that you forgot to list - Richard BassNut Greene 11:52:01 08/14/03 (13)
- That's number 1, and you missed the point entirely. - Commuteman 14:12:48 08/14/03 (12)
- Do you really have an open mind about wires -- maybe not? - Richard BassNut Greene 07:24:33 08/15/03 (11)
- Where's Enid Lumley and J. Peter Moncrieff .... - Sean 23:27:09 08/19/03 (0)
- Is this a record for the longest thread on Prop Head Plaza without mindless name calling? - Commuteman 16:53:54 08/15/03 (4)
- Are we breaking some rule on this forum? - Richard BassNut Greene 08:08:32 08/18/03 (0)
- Well, it could just be a coincidence.... - Charles Hansen 21:01:01 08/16/03 (0)
- Re: Is this a record for the longest thread on Prop Head Plaza without mindless name calling? - Ted Smith 20:10:49 08/15/03 (1)
- You're just waiting patiently for the mindless name calling to begin - Richard BassNut Greene 08:12:27 08/18/03 (0)
- Hell, I don't even trust my own impressions - Commuteman 16:50:26 08/15/03 (4)
- Actually the DBT's don't really "work" - Richard BassNut Greene 19:45:08 08/15/03 (3)
- Now THAT I will buy.... - Commuteman 19:20:52 08/16/03 (2)
- The best blind test of all -- of the Bedini CD Clarifier - Richard BassNut Greene 08:38:29 08/18/03 (1)
- Maybe the system sounded better just holding the Bedini and the CD at the same time? ;-) - Commuteman 12:38:57 08/18/03 (0)
- Please continue - E-Stat 10:21:26 08/10/03 (0)
- Re: Link to real double-blind test documention - kurt s 15:34:58 08/05/03 (15)
- The link was intended to inform about methodology -- not statistics - Richard BassNut Greene 06:04:22 08/06/03 (14)
- Same old, same old - Jon Risch 07:47:44 08/09/03 (8)
- Certainly your complaints apply to sighted auditions ... if they get "null" results - Richard BassNut Greene 10:32:00 08/11/03 (7)
- RG, you've hit the real issue... - Commuteman 10:14:28 08/13/03 (6)
- Double-blind test of Mini-disc and CD - Richard BassNut Greene 09:19:01 08/18/03 (5)
- Wait a minute! This means.. - Commuteman 14:49:09 08/18/03 (4)
- Can't get from here ... to there - Richard BassNut Greene 13:11:27 08/19/03 (3)
- You can't have it both ways - Commuteman 13:38:44 08/20/03 (2)
- Comparing your system today with its sound quality five years ago -- you must have a great memory! - Richard BassNut Greene 09:24:18 08/22/03 (1)
- I think we just reached the point of absurdity... - Commuteman 09:26:12 08/25/03 (0)
- Re: The link was intended to inform about methodology -- not statistics - Rod M 19:09:46 08/06/03 (1)
- Read your post ... before you press "Submit Follow Up"? - Richard BassNut Greene 04:48:50 08/07/03 (0)
- Re: The link was intended to inform about methodology -- not statistics - kurt s 08:19:27 08/06/03 (2)
- Re: The link was intended to inform about methodology -- not statistics - Commuteman 10:10:59 08/06/03 (1)
- Yes. That is a good example. nt - kurt s 10:37:10 08/06/03 (0)
- Re: Link to real double-blind test documention - Steve Eddy 10:37:58 08/05/03 (1)
- Of course there's an agenda -- it's advertising copy - Richard BassNut Greene 06:22:36 08/06/03 (0)
- I completely disagree with everything Rod M. says in response to this post - Richard BassNut Greene 10:22:56 08/05/03 (0)
- Re: Reading between the lines - jensw 16:00:29 08/01/03 (0)
- Re: Reading between the lines - Steve Eddy 13:26:57 08/01/03 (0)
- Ah, but you haven't "proven" them wrong... - Commuteman 13:06:18 08/01/03 (0)
- "I would wonder if the naysayers were simply being obstinate." - clarkjohnsen 13:06:15 08/01/03 (12)
- Re: "I would wonder if the naysayers were simply being obstinate." - Dan Banquer 13:34:45 08/01/03 (11)
- Re: "I would wonder if the naysayers were simply being obstinate." - Steve Eddy 14:35:13 08/01/03 (10)
- "Ah, but how do you KNOW it doesn't help, work or whatever?" - clarkjohnsen 06:52:37 08/02/03 (2)
- Re: "Ah, but how do you KNOW it doesn't help, work or whatever?" - Dan Banquer 09:28:33 08/04/03 (0)
- Re: Exactly. [nt] - alan m. kafton 16:30:47 08/03/03 (0)
- Re: "I would wonder if the naysayers were simply being obstinate." - Dan Banquer 15:02:16 08/01/03 (6)
- Re: But, how recently? - alan m. kafton 16:29:59 08/03/03 (5)
- Re: But, how recently? - Dan Banquer 09:24:50 08/04/03 (4)
- Re: Oh, Dan. Tsk, tsk...... - alan m. kafton 13:41:47 08/04/03 (3)
- Re: Oh, Dan. Tsk, tsk...... - Dan Banquer 12:49:21 08/05/03 (0)
- Re: Oh, Dan. Tsk, tsk...... - Steve Eddy 14:08:06 08/04/03 (1)
- Re: Steve....you *are* beating a dead horse. Move on, please. [nt] - alan m. kafton 15:02:48 08/04/03 (0)
- Re: Golden Ears and Audible Differences: A New Test - Todd Krieger 12:19:05 08/01/03 (4)
- "...or the QC of these power cords isn't so good." - clarkjohnsen 12:45:39 08/01/03 (3)
- Re: Then, of course...... - alan m. kafton 16:27:24 08/03/03 (1)
- Several more should be registered with the Missing Parameters Bureau. nt - clarkjohnsen 08:27:09 08/04/03 (0)
- Re: "...or the QC of these power cords isn't so good." - Dan Banquer 13:39:32 08/01/03 (0)
- Another wifely anecdote to attack - Commuteman 11:56:59 08/01/03 (5)
- Re: Another wifely anecdote to attack - john curl 12:55:50 08/01/03 (2)
- Actually, she's a geologist - Commuteman 13:02:58 08/01/03 (1)
- Re: Actually, she's a geologist - john curl 13:27:03 08/01/03 (0)
- Re: Another wifely anecdote to attack - Todd Krieger 12:38:27 08/01/03 (1)
- Yep. - Commuteman 12:59:29 08/01/03 (0)
- Statistically insignificant.... - Monstrous Mike 10:44:02 08/01/03 (15)
- Re: Statistically insignificant.... - kurt s 12:45:34 08/01/03 (3)
- Come on Kurt.... - Monstrous Mike 20:31:00 08/05/03 (1)
- Re: Come on Kurt.... - kurt s 18:52:53 08/06/03 (0)
- Re: Statistically insignificant.... - Pat D 08:41:31 08/02/03 (0)
- Re: Statistically insignificant.... - Bayside Bomber 12:41:07 08/01/03 (1)
- Nice try, Professor... - Monstrous Mike 21:52:15 08/05/03 (0)
- Re: Statistically insignificant.... - Todd Krieger 12:34:50 08/01/03 (8)
- You obviously don't play poker for money....nt - Monstrous Mike 11:53:03 08/04/03 (0)
- ESP - Adi 22:37:35 08/01/03 (1)
- Re: ESP - Pat D 07:50:15 08/02/03 (0)
- those big sings that said "good" and "bad" probably hurt... - sunnysal 13:43:45 08/01/03 (3)
- Re: those big sings that said "good" and "bad" probably hurt... - Todd Krieger 14:28:48 08/01/03 (2)
- all "real" scientists have good poker faces....(nt) - sunnysal 15:06:46 08/01/03 (1)
- All "real" scientists wear beards. ;-)> - gino 07:42:38 08/05/03 (0)
- Good question! nt - clarkjohnsen 12:53:25 08/01/03 (0)
- Re: Golden Ears and Audible Differences: A New Test - john curl 10:23:55 08/01/03 (1)
- Re: Golden Ears and Audible Differences: A New Test - Steve Eddy 11:01:28 08/01/03 (0)
- Re: Golden Ears and Audible Differences: A New Test - john curl 09:28:32 08/01/03 (16)
- Re: Golden Ears and Audible Differences: A New Test - Monstrous Mike 10:49:14 08/01/03 (0)
- Re: Golden Ears and Audible Differences: A New Test - Steve Eddy 09:48:22 08/01/03 (14)
- "Only if audio design is to throw science out the window." - clarkjohnsen 13:16:41 08/01/03 (13)
- Re: "Only if audio design is to throw science out the window." - david hull 17:36:03 08/01/03 (1)
- "Why can't a designer do both?" Indeed. However... - clarkjohnsen 06:48:14 08/02/03 (0)
- Re: "Only if audio design is to throw science out the window." - jensw 15:14:35 08/01/03 (0)
- Re: "Only if audio design is to throw science out the window." - Scott Frankland 14:20:44 08/01/03 (2)
- " But that doesn't mean that one day it won't." Yes, and... - clarkjohnsen 06:44:41 08/02/03 (1)
- Re: " But that doesn't mean that one day it won't." Yes, and... - Scott Frankland 11:31:05 08/02/03 (0)
- Re: "Only if audio design is to throw science out the window." - Steve Eddy 14:08:38 08/01/03 (3)
- "Why are so many people so insecure?" - clarkjohnsen 06:41:56 08/02/03 (2)
- Re: "Why are so many people so insecure?" - Steve Eddy 10:20:03 08/02/03 (1)
- "We'll never get those answers if subjective experience is asserted as objective fact." - clarkjohnsen 08:24:55 08/04/03 (0)
- Re: "Only if audio design is to throw science out the window." - Dan Banquer 13:32:18 08/01/03 (2)
- Re: "Only if audio design is to throw science out the window." - Steve Eddy 14:21:32 08/01/03 (1)
- Re: "Only if audio design is to throw science out the window." - Dan Banquer 15:07:33 08/01/03 (0)
- Re: Golden Ears and Audible Differences: A New Test - Steve Eddy 09:22:18 08/01/03 (0)
- Nothing new there - pburant 08:20:49 08/01/03 (22)
- Re: Nothing new there - Dan Banquer 09:18:30 08/01/03 (21)
- Measurements do NOT tell the full story - pburant 10:43:18 08/01/03 (20)
- "You can continue to try to remove the human from the audio system..." YES! - clarkjohnsen 12:59:08 08/01/03 (1)
- Re: "You can continue to try to remove the human from the audio system..." YES! - Dan Banquer 13:18:32 08/01/03 (0)
- Re: Measurements do NOT tell the full story - Dan Banquer 11:30:33 08/01/03 (17)
- Uhh...science - pburant 11:50:44 08/01/03 (1)
- Re: Uhh...science - Dan Banquer 12:21:15 08/01/03 (0)
- enlightened common sense - Commuteman 11:48:58 08/01/03 (2)
- Re: enlightened common sense - Pat D 08:50:19 08/02/03 (0)
- Excellent points... - Charles Hansen 22:22:54 08/01/03 (0)
- P.S. - Dan Banquer 11:45:20 08/01/03 (11)
- Only if you're claiming your additional measurements DO tell the whole story - pburant 11:54:37 08/01/03 (10)
- Re: Only if you're claiming your additional measurements DO tell the whole story - Dan Banquer 12:31:14 08/01/03 (9)
- How about if you answer the original question? - Charles Hansen 22:19:45 08/01/03 (8)
- Re: How about if you answer the original question? - Dan Banquer 03:43:27 08/02/03 (7)
- I think that all of those are important... - Charles Hansen 12:11:23 08/03/03 (6)
- Re: I think that all of those are important... - Dan Banquer 14:07:53 08/03/03 (5)
- Re: I think that all of those are important... - Steve Eddy 00:18:07 08/04/03 (2)
- Re: I think that all of those are important... - Dan Banquer 03:55:16 08/04/03 (1)
- Re: I think that all of those are important... - Steve Eddy 11:13:37 08/04/03 (0)
- If I understand you correctly... - Charles Hansen 21:18:43 08/03/03 (1)
- Re: If I understand you correctly... - Dan Banquer 03:50:06 08/04/03 (0)
- Try matching A-B volumes next time - Richard BassNut Greene 07:01:34 08/01/03 (64)
- Straw dog! - Rod M 15:30:38 08/01/03 (53)
- What are you drinking? - Richard BassNut Greene 10:32:21 08/05/03 (0)
- Absurd consequences - Pat D 18:30:14 08/02/03 (0)
- Re: Straw dog! - Steve Eddy 15:45:07 08/01/03 (50)
- Re: Straw dog! - Rod M 16:28:45 08/01/03 (49)
- Re: Grouchy Dog - Dan Banquer 04:34:25 08/03/03 (1)
- Re: Grouchy Dog - Rod M 17:55:58 08/04/03 (0)
- Re: Straw dog! - Pat D 07:36:11 08/02/03 (0)
- Re: Straw dog! - Steve Eddy 16:46:04 08/01/03 (45)
- I now recognize the exasperating thing about SE - kurt s 22:15:44 08/01/03 (44)
- Your exasperation is the result of your own dogmatism - Steve Eddy 00:39:07 08/02/03 (0)
- Okay, fair enough - kurt s 16:53:18 08/02/03 (39)
- Re: Okay, fair enough - $orabji! 09:59:52 08/03/03 (1)
- Re: Okay, fair enough - Steve Eddy 10:29:29 08/03/03 (0)
- Re: Okay, fair enough - Steve Eddy 20:15:56 08/02/03 (35)
- Re: Okay, fair enough - kurt s 22:27:24 08/02/03 (34)
- Re: Okay, fair enough - Steve Eddy 00:32:26 08/03/03 (0)
- Couldn't have said it better myself... - Charles Hansen 22:43:24 08/02/03 (32)
- Re: Couldn't have said it better myself... - Steve Eddy 00:38:30 08/03/03 (0)
- Re: Couldn't have said it better myself... - john curl 09:07:17 08/03/03 (30)
- Re: Couldn't have said it better myself... - john curl 10:51:49 08/03/03 (28)
- Re: Couldn't have said it better myself... - Steve Eddy 12:41:28 08/03/03 (27)
- Re: Couldn't have said it better myself... - john curl 15:04:52 08/03/03 (26)
- Re: Couldn't have said it better myself... - Steve Eddy 20:06:12 08/03/03 (25)
- Re: Couldn't have said it better myself... - john curl 21:27:54 08/03/03 (24)
- Re: Couldn't have said it better myself... - Steve Eddy 23:06:11 08/03/03 (23)
- Steve...I'd like to point out a few major errors in your post. - jneutron 07:13:16 08/04/03 (3)
- Re: Steve...I'd like to point out a few major errors in your post. - Steve Eddy 09:46:57 08/04/03 (2)
- Hmmmmm..... - jneutron 10:20:47 08/04/03 (1)
- Re: Hmmmmm..... - Steve Eddy 10:44:52 08/04/03 (0)
- Re: Couldn't have said it better myself... - john curl 01:17:07 08/04/03 (18)
- Re: Couldn't have said it better myself... - Steve Eddy 11:09:59 08/04/03 (4)
- Re: Couldn't have said it better myself... - john curl 14:22:38 08/04/03 (3)
- Re: Couldn't have said it better myself... - Steve Eddy 14:56:33 08/04/03 (2)
- Re: Couldn't have said it better myself... - john curl 15:56:40 08/04/03 (1)
- Bullshit.... - slope 17:03:57 08/06/03 (0)
- Hi John - jneutron 07:09:26 08/04/03 (12)
- Re: Hi John - john curl 08:12:50 08/04/03 (11)
- Re: Hi John - jneutron 08:40:39 08/04/03 (10)
- Re: Hi John - john curl 09:07:43 08/04/03 (9)
- Re: Hi John - jneutron 10:46:04 08/04/03 (8)
- Re: Hi John - Steve Eddy 11:16:51 08/04/03 (7)
- Re: Hi John - john curl 16:09:27 08/04/03 (6)
- Re: Couldn't have said it better myself... - Steve Eddy 09:25:16 08/03/03 (0)
- Re: Okay, fair enough - john curl 18:42:08 08/02/03 (0)
- "That's the whole problem, Kurt, SIDES!" BRAVO! - Pat D 07:06:29 08/02/03 (2)
- Re: "That's the whole problem, Kurt, SIDES!" BRAVO! - Steve Eddy 10:38:06 08/02/03 (1)
- Re: "That's the whole problem, Kurt, SIDES!" BRAVO! - Pat D 09:48:44 08/04/03 (0)
- Re: Try matching A-B volumes next time - Todd Krieger 12:28:26 08/01/03 (4)
- I call this "The Myth of Level Matching". - clarkjohnsen 13:03:52 08/01/03 (3)
- OK, but irrelevant. - Pat D 18:20:42 08/02/03 (0)
- Throughput? - david hull 21:18:09 08/01/03 (0)
- Re: I call this "The Myth of Level Matching". - Dan Banquer 13:20:19 08/01/03 (0)
- Re: Try matching A-B volumes next time - Bayside Bomber 08:09:47 08/01/03 (4)
- A*U*D*I*O*P*H*I*L*E'S .......W*I*V*E*S - Richard BassNut Greene 09:34:15 08/01/03 (0)
- Re: Try matching A-B volumes next time - Dan Banquer 08:19:08 08/01/03 (2)
- Re: Try matching A-B volumes next time - Pat D 08:30:16 08/02/03 (0)
- Re: Try matching A-B volumes next time - david hull 21:25:57 08/01/03 (0)
Follow Ups
- Re: "Only if audio design is to throw science out the window." - david hull 17:36:03 08/01/03 (1)
- "Why can't a designer do both?" Indeed. However... - clarkjohnsen 06:48:14 08/02/03 (0)
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