In Reply to: RE: I find it sort of funny.... posted by Presto on May 29, 2010 at 21:21:46:
The FIR filters of my speakers are, as far as I know, the results of a PHD thesis:
http://sylvester.bth.rwth-aachen.de/dissertationen/1999/2/99_2.pdf
>I agree that the subject of pre-ringing is not well established and to date have not heard these "artifacts" myself.<
jj in one his presentations states that some older converters and codecs produce audible pre-ringing but that not all pre-echo is audible.
>In my case I had set up time aligned and non-time aligned versions of the same cabinet and drivers, but technically even though these things are the same they are not the same speaker because as you point out, the polar and amplitude responses would be different as well. But somehow, still, what I am hearing seems like it has more to do with impulse response than amplitude or polar response but psychological forces could well be at play and can't be ruled out.<
In the above mentioned thesis the author did some tests with a small group of listeners and found that different filters (presumably LLL and MMM) could not be distinguished, not in a reverberant room, not in the anechoic chamber. The most important parameter is said to be amplitude response, which is also what Floyd Toole has found in his research. And this is where many loudspeakers, also in the high-end, perform rather poorly. And that’s why speaker manufacturers don’t want to show the graphs.
Klaus
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Follow Ups
- Re: so I don't think I can exchange with you on an eye-to-eye level - KlausR. 10:20:07 05/30/10 (45)
- You've opened a marvelous worm can here... - Presto 19:41:16 05/30/10 (44)
- Flat anechoically or in room? - morricab 05:26:16 06/03/10 (0)
- Opening worm cans is a specialty of mine! - KlausR. 21:56:32 05/31/10 (42)
- RE: Opening worm cans is a specialty of mine! - Tony Lauck 07:18:13 06/03/10 (39)
- RE: systems that measure flat at their listening position - KlausR. 00:55:19 06/04/10 (38)
- That's great... - E-Stat 12:12:16 06/05/10 (0)
- RE: systems that measure flat at their listening position - tomservo 16:35:55 06/04/10 (1)
- RE: systems that measure flat at their listening position - KlausR. 23:23:47 06/05/10 (0)
- RE: systems that measure flat at their listening position - Tony Lauck 06:40:14 06/04/10 (34)
- "measuring flat" is Klaus' intolerant straw man - Sordidman 16:18:02 06/04/10 (33)
- So having preferences different from yours constitutes "intolerance" and "blind arrogance?" (nt) - Pat D 16:05:45 06/05/10 (32)
- Nope, blind faith in poor measurements and denigrating experience does -t - Sordidman 10:54:25 06/07/10 (31)
- Measurements work for KlausR. What's your problem? - Pat D 16:46:00 06/07/10 (30)
- Misreading again? I said, nor implied nothing of the kind - Sordidman 10:45:25 06/08/10 (29)
- RE: erroneous conclusions - KlausR. 04:38:42 06/09/10 (26)
- ""which criteria happened to be non-subjective"" - Sordidman 16:55:14 06/09/10 (23)
- RE: ""which criteria happened to be non-subjective"" - Tony Lauck 08:37:28 06/10/10 (1)
- Design as you go; then make adjustments - Sordidman 09:40:58 06/10/10 (0)
- RE: Good sound is the goal, and it is entirely subjective. - KlausR. 21:55:21 06/09/10 (20)
- It's either a "fact" or it isn't - Sordidman 09:32:46 06/10/10 (19)
- There is no defintion for art, but audio definitely is not art! - KlausR. 22:04:28 06/10/10 (18)
- Not your decision: Art is whatever any artist says it is.... - Sordidman 09:40:23 06/11/10 (17)
- RE: That is clearly crap - KlausR. 13:38:08 06/12/10 (9)
- Case Closed? Not -- I doubt it will ever be closed. - Tony Lauck 10:39:18 06/13/10 (8)
- Meyer/Moran threads - KlausR. 08:19:20 06/14/10 (7)
- RE: Meyer/Moran threads - Tony Lauck 08:46:22 06/14/10 (6)
- RE: I don't know why you didn't find my posts - KlausR. 14:01:54 06/14/10 (5)
- RE: I don't know why you didn't find my posts - Tony Lauck 15:08:58 06/14/10 (4)
- RE: I have faith in Brad's personal integrity - KlausR. 02:47:48 06/15/10 (3)
- RE: I have faith in Brad's personal integrity - Tony Lauck 08:58:27 06/15/10 (2)
- Some (final) points - KlausR. 09:13:40 06/16/10 (1)
- RE: Some (final) points - Tony Lauck 09:41:45 06/16/10 (0)
- RE: Not your decision: Art is whatever any artist says it is.... - Tony Lauck 11:09:54 06/11/10 (6)
- Accuracy? - Sordidman 12:24:33 06/11/10 (5)
- RE: Accuracy? - Tony Lauck 13:16:58 06/11/10 (4)
- There's a lot of anger out there.......... - Sordidman 14:25:35 06/11/10 (3)
- RE: There's a lot of anger out there.......... - Tony Lauck 15:04:29 06/11/10 (2)
- RE: There's a lot of anger out there.......... - Sordidman 15:43:42 06/11/10 (1)
- RE: There's a lot of anger out there.......... - Tony Lauck 17:33:16 06/11/10 (0)
- RE: erroneous conclusions - Tony Lauck 07:42:27 06/09/10 (1)
- RE: Conflict - KlausR. 21:31:00 06/09/10 (0)
- You just illustrated what I said! (nt) - Pat D 14:47:31 06/08/10 (1)
- No, but Whatever: time to get off the schoolyard (nt) - Sordidman 16:02:20 06/08/10 (0)
- On flat response... - Presto 10:18:29 06/01/10 (1)
- Agreement on all points (nt) - KlausR. 07:34:29 06/02/10 (0)