In Reply to: RE: I find it sort of funny.... posted by Presto on May 29, 2010 at 01:09:02:
Hi Presto,
>Those are the exact type of measurements that have my interest these days.<
Impulse response of the LLL is
I’ve got a review with step and impulse response of all three presets, if interested, drop me a mail.
>I assume you do not worry about the pre-ringing of FIR filters.<
Not being familiar with FIR technology at all, I had to do a quick search:
Apparently pre-ringing may be audible, but under what circumstances? Any research? Further, Klein+Hummel customers typically are trained and experienced listeners, so I suppose that pre-ringing is not really an issue, after all, K+H have a reputation to lose.
>What I was referring to, however, are systems that make a complete mess of phase, have no time alignment whatsoever and simply have a reasonably flat frequency response (if that).<
When comparing time aligned to not time aligned speakers, you are almost certainly comparing different amplitude responses and radiation behaviours at the same time, not only phase behaviour. In order to judge the effects of time alignment alone you’d have to equalize the speakers and listen in a reflection free zone (heavy absorption or anechoic)
My speakers allow comparison of time alignment only. I know of only one serious publication where time alignment was investigated, Schmid, “Psychoacoustic experiments with an electroacoustic reproduction system with variable step response”, 21st Ann. Conf. of Acoustics. (German Acoustical Society), Saarbrücken 1995. Used were four different 3-tone signals. For 3 of those, detection rate was below 10%, for the 4th the detection rate was close to 90%. That signal had its center frequency right where the phase angle of the non-aligned system dropped dramatically.
Klaus
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Follow Ups
- RE: I find it sort of funny.... - KlausR. 10:41:39 05/29/10 (47)
- RE: I find it sort of funny.... - Presto 21:21:46 05/29/10 (46)
- Re: so I don't think I can exchange with you on an eye-to-eye level - KlausR. 10:20:07 05/30/10 (45)
- You've opened a marvelous worm can here... - Presto 19:41:16 05/30/10 (44)
- Flat anechoically or in room? - morricab 05:26:16 06/03/10 (0)
- Opening worm cans is a specialty of mine! - KlausR. 21:56:32 05/31/10 (42)
- RE: Opening worm cans is a specialty of mine! - Tony Lauck 07:18:13 06/03/10 (39)
- RE: systems that measure flat at their listening position - KlausR. 00:55:19 06/04/10 (38)
- That's great... - E-Stat 12:12:16 06/05/10 (0)
- RE: systems that measure flat at their listening position - tomservo 16:35:55 06/04/10 (1)
- RE: systems that measure flat at their listening position - KlausR. 23:23:47 06/05/10 (0)
- RE: systems that measure flat at their listening position - Tony Lauck 06:40:14 06/04/10 (34)
- "measuring flat" is Klaus' intolerant straw man - Sordidman 16:18:02 06/04/10 (33)
- So having preferences different from yours constitutes "intolerance" and "blind arrogance?" (nt) - Pat D 16:05:45 06/05/10 (32)
- Nope, blind faith in poor measurements and denigrating experience does -t - Sordidman 10:54:25 06/07/10 (31)
- Measurements work for KlausR. What's your problem? - Pat D 16:46:00 06/07/10 (30)
- Misreading again? I said, nor implied nothing of the kind - Sordidman 10:45:25 06/08/10 (29)
- RE: erroneous conclusions - KlausR. 04:38:42 06/09/10 (26)
- ""which criteria happened to be non-subjective"" - Sordidman 16:55:14 06/09/10 (23)
- RE: ""which criteria happened to be non-subjective"" - Tony Lauck 08:37:28 06/10/10 (1)
- Design as you go; then make adjustments - Sordidman 09:40:58 06/10/10 (0)
- RE: Good sound is the goal, and it is entirely subjective. - KlausR. 21:55:21 06/09/10 (20)
- It's either a "fact" or it isn't - Sordidman 09:32:46 06/10/10 (19)
- There is no defintion for art, but audio definitely is not art! - KlausR. 22:04:28 06/10/10 (18)
- Not your decision: Art is whatever any artist says it is.... - Sordidman 09:40:23 06/11/10 (17)
- RE: That is clearly crap - KlausR. 13:38:08 06/12/10 (9)
- Case Closed? Not -- I doubt it will ever be closed. - Tony Lauck 10:39:18 06/13/10 (8)
- Meyer/Moran threads - KlausR. 08:19:20 06/14/10 (7)
- RE: Meyer/Moran threads - Tony Lauck 08:46:22 06/14/10 (6)
- RE: I don't know why you didn't find my posts - KlausR. 14:01:54 06/14/10 (5)
- RE: I don't know why you didn't find my posts - Tony Lauck 15:08:58 06/14/10 (4)
- RE: I have faith in Brad's personal integrity - KlausR. 02:47:48 06/15/10 (3)
- RE: I have faith in Brad's personal integrity - Tony Lauck 08:58:27 06/15/10 (2)
- Some (final) points - KlausR. 09:13:40 06/16/10 (1)
- RE: Some (final) points - Tony Lauck 09:41:45 06/16/10 (0)
- RE: Not your decision: Art is whatever any artist says it is.... - Tony Lauck 11:09:54 06/11/10 (6)
- Accuracy? - Sordidman 12:24:33 06/11/10 (5)
- RE: Accuracy? - Tony Lauck 13:16:58 06/11/10 (4)
- There's a lot of anger out there.......... - Sordidman 14:25:35 06/11/10 (3)
- RE: There's a lot of anger out there.......... - Tony Lauck 15:04:29 06/11/10 (2)
- RE: There's a lot of anger out there.......... - Sordidman 15:43:42 06/11/10 (1)
- RE: There's a lot of anger out there.......... - Tony Lauck 17:33:16 06/11/10 (0)
- RE: erroneous conclusions - Tony Lauck 07:42:27 06/09/10 (1)
- RE: Conflict - KlausR. 21:31:00 06/09/10 (0)
- You just illustrated what I said! (nt) - Pat D 14:47:31 06/08/10 (1)
- No, but Whatever: time to get off the schoolyard (nt) - Sordidman 16:02:20 06/08/10 (0)
- On flat response... - Presto 10:18:29 06/01/10 (1)
- Agreement on all points (nt) - KlausR. 07:34:29 06/02/10 (0)