In Reply to: RE: I find it sort of funny.... posted by KlausR. on May 28, 2010 at 22:13:27:
Klaus:
Those are the exact type of measurements that have my interest these days. I am using DSP IIR filters with phase correction as an alternative to FIR filters because I have not yet mastered how to get FIR filters summing up the way I would like.
The nice aspect about FIR filters, I suppose, would be that I could (perhaps) be able to incorporate crossover transfer functions and equalisation (amplitude/phase) in the same impulse, thus simplifying my digital chain. I assume you do not worry about the pre-ringing of FIR filters. I have yet to really hear this at work, although it is very easily measured with typical crossover development software tools.
I believe I have mastered the IIR approach using the Thuneau Allocator - it sounds very good - far better than other digital/active approaches that I have tried. These former methods lacked variable Q filters and phase correction despite having eq and time alignment capabilities. The Allocator/Arbitrator combo has filters, eq, time delay and phase correction rolled into one sleek package. It uses "forward/reverse" phase correction that is not dependent on mic location like digital room correction methods are. The opposite phase roll of the acoustic + electrical slopes (combined) are ADDED to the input signal. The actual phase roll then effectively cancels out with that imparted on the signal. All you need to do is match an even order target slope for it to work as designed. This can be done by combining electrical and acoustic slopes and adding in the necessary equalisation (6 or 12db) as required.
Anyways, I can appreciate the changes you are making are subtle because I believe those three systems are all very close to ideal.
What I was referring to, however, are systems that make a complete mess of phase, have no time alignment whatsoever and simply have a reasonably flat frequency response (if that). If comparing a properly dialed in system to what is commonly out there, I find the difference is not the loss of just the veil, but the entirety of her entire garb as well. And naked, I must say, she is all the more tantalizing - the music is.
I have just opened the door, really, on this stuff. I have years of work, study and trial and error ahead of me. Even if I end up putting all this DSP technology into the closet in exchange for passive crossovers and analog sourcesn, the fun of the journey alone even up to now would have been worth the effort.
Cheers,
Presto
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Follow Ups
- RE: I find it sort of funny.... - Presto 01:09:02 05/29/10 (49)
- I just used single driver loudspeakers - morricab 05:38:23 06/02/10 (0)
- RE: I find it sort of funny.... - KlausR. 10:41:39 05/29/10 (47)
- RE: I find it sort of funny.... - Presto 21:21:46 05/29/10 (46)
- Re: so I don't think I can exchange with you on an eye-to-eye level - KlausR. 10:20:07 05/30/10 (45)
- You've opened a marvelous worm can here... - Presto 19:41:16 05/30/10 (44)
- Flat anechoically or in room? - morricab 05:26:16 06/03/10 (0)
- Opening worm cans is a specialty of mine! - KlausR. 21:56:32 05/31/10 (42)
- RE: Opening worm cans is a specialty of mine! - Tony Lauck 07:18:13 06/03/10 (39)
- RE: systems that measure flat at their listening position - KlausR. 00:55:19 06/04/10 (38)
- That's great... - E-Stat 12:12:16 06/05/10 (0)
- RE: systems that measure flat at their listening position - tomservo 16:35:55 06/04/10 (1)
- RE: systems that measure flat at their listening position - KlausR. 23:23:47 06/05/10 (0)
- RE: systems that measure flat at their listening position - Tony Lauck 06:40:14 06/04/10 (34)
- "measuring flat" is Klaus' intolerant straw man - Sordidman 16:18:02 06/04/10 (33)
- So having preferences different from yours constitutes "intolerance" and "blind arrogance?" (nt) - Pat D 16:05:45 06/05/10 (32)
- Nope, blind faith in poor measurements and denigrating experience does -t - Sordidman 10:54:25 06/07/10 (31)
- Measurements work for KlausR. What's your problem? - Pat D 16:46:00 06/07/10 (30)
- Misreading again? I said, nor implied nothing of the kind - Sordidman 10:45:25 06/08/10 (29)
- RE: erroneous conclusions - KlausR. 04:38:42 06/09/10 (26)
- ""which criteria happened to be non-subjective"" - Sordidman 16:55:14 06/09/10 (23)
- RE: ""which criteria happened to be non-subjective"" - Tony Lauck 08:37:28 06/10/10 (1)
- Design as you go; then make adjustments - Sordidman 09:40:58 06/10/10 (0)
- RE: Good sound is the goal, and it is entirely subjective. - KlausR. 21:55:21 06/09/10 (20)
- It's either a "fact" or it isn't - Sordidman 09:32:46 06/10/10 (19)
- There is no defintion for art, but audio definitely is not art! - KlausR. 22:04:28 06/10/10 (18)
- Not your decision: Art is whatever any artist says it is.... - Sordidman 09:40:23 06/11/10 (17)
- RE: That is clearly crap - KlausR. 13:38:08 06/12/10 (9)
- Case Closed? Not -- I doubt it will ever be closed. - Tony Lauck 10:39:18 06/13/10 (8)
- Meyer/Moran threads - KlausR. 08:19:20 06/14/10 (7)
- RE: Meyer/Moran threads - Tony Lauck 08:46:22 06/14/10 (6)
- RE: I don't know why you didn't find my posts - KlausR. 14:01:54 06/14/10 (5)
- RE: I don't know why you didn't find my posts - Tony Lauck 15:08:58 06/14/10 (4)
- RE: I have faith in Brad's personal integrity - KlausR. 02:47:48 06/15/10 (3)
- RE: I have faith in Brad's personal integrity - Tony Lauck 08:58:27 06/15/10 (2)
- Some (final) points - KlausR. 09:13:40 06/16/10 (1)
- RE: Some (final) points - Tony Lauck 09:41:45 06/16/10 (0)
- RE: Not your decision: Art is whatever any artist says it is.... - Tony Lauck 11:09:54 06/11/10 (6)
- Accuracy? - Sordidman 12:24:33 06/11/10 (5)
- RE: Accuracy? - Tony Lauck 13:16:58 06/11/10 (4)
- There's a lot of anger out there.......... - Sordidman 14:25:35 06/11/10 (3)
- RE: There's a lot of anger out there.......... - Tony Lauck 15:04:29 06/11/10 (2)
- RE: There's a lot of anger out there.......... - Sordidman 15:43:42 06/11/10 (1)
- RE: There's a lot of anger out there.......... - Tony Lauck 17:33:16 06/11/10 (0)
- RE: erroneous conclusions - Tony Lauck 07:42:27 06/09/10 (1)
- RE: Conflict - KlausR. 21:31:00 06/09/10 (0)
- You just illustrated what I said! (nt) - Pat D 14:47:31 06/08/10 (1)
- No, but Whatever: time to get off the schoolyard (nt) - Sordidman 16:02:20 06/08/10 (0)
- On flat response... - Presto 10:18:29 06/01/10 (1)
- Agreement on all points (nt) - KlausR. 07:34:29 06/02/10 (0)