In Reply to: Speaker Cable Differences Measured posted by Jon Risch on May 26, 2010 at 17:38:12:
That 'philes who don't even own transient accurate speakers plagued with phase distortion and bizarre impulse response are spending all their time and money swapping out interconnects and speaker tippy toes.
I say get rid of the REAL problem(s) in your system FIRST.
If you really want to "look deeper into music" try speakers with all drivers time and phase coherent and a flat phase response. Hard to find with passive boxes but it's a reality now for active systems - especially those that employ phase correction and time alignment.
Once you try these sorts of "tweaks" you'll find that probably any set of interconnects you have around will work just fine, while you listen late into the evening even on a work night.
The measurement mic does not lie. I myself don't bother things that don't show up on a MLS plot when there are things THAT BADLY OUT OF WACK that DO show up. Measureability of cables is a non-issue. The issue is philes STLLL insist on iterating with variables of minutae while leaving massive sources of error alone because of the learning curve involved. ONce you a/b corrected /eq'd / time aligned systems with conventional passive systems you'll understand the differences are NOT subtle. I'm not talking "removal of a veil" here. I'm talking the difference between listening to speakers and FORGETTING you're listening to speakers. THat's not subtle at all - it's what I have been seeking out for many years now. And I'm closer than ever before.
You guys keep swapping cables and A-goning perfectly good gear. I gave up on that once I heard what fixing the REAL problems in audio can do.
Oh, if you dismiss active digital filters then don't play CDs. They have digital active filters in them too. And even modern LPs may have had digital equalisation and other digital intruments in the chain (or in the DAW software), so it's probably far and few LPs that are truly "AAA", meaning analog master, analog submaster and analog medium.
Pick your poison, but my vote is to stop tweakery for a while and try some hardcore approaches to good sound. It saved me from insanity.
Cheers,
Presto
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Follow Ups
- I find it sort of funny.... - Presto 17:51:00 05/28/10 (78)
- So, all the measuress you took to eliminate gross inadequacies... - carcass93 08:51:30 06/01/10 (1)
- RE: So, all the measuress you took to eliminate gross inadequacies... - Presto 16:23:26 06/04/10 (0)
- RE: I find it sort of funny.... - benie 19:13:50 05/29/10 (15)
- Well, - Presto 20:52:51 05/29/10 (14)
- RE: Well, - benie 03:38:44 05/30/10 (13)
- But you make it sound... - Presto 19:33:21 05/30/10 (12)
- RE: But you make it sound... - benie 22:21:02 05/30/10 (11)
- RE: But you make it sound... - tomservo 16:19:11 06/04/10 (3)
- RE: But you make it sound... - benie 17:12:37 06/04/10 (2)
- RE: But you make it sound... - tomservo 17:28:27 06/04/10 (1)
- RE: But you make it sound... - benie 02:30:27 06/06/10 (0)
- Well, if you don't post any more you can't learn - Presto 08:46:16 05/31/10 (6)
- RE: Well, if you don't post any more you can't learn - Davey 09:45:50 05/31/10 (5)
- RE: Well, if you don't post any more you can't learn - Presto 11:00:06 05/31/10 (4)
- Ring dome tweeters - caspian@peak.org 18:10:26 05/31/10 (1)
- RE: Ring dome tweeters - Presto 09:45:32 06/03/10 (0)
- RE: Well, if you don't post any more you can't learn - Davey 17:38:01 05/31/10 (1)
- RE: Well, if you don't post any more you can't learn - Tony Lauck 06:54:02 06/03/10 (0)
- You can easily save yourself from tweak insanity; don't buy any. But why do you think you should tell others?* - Norm 08:14:33 05/29/10 (8)
- Why to subjectivists insist on telling others about their illusions? - Pat D 09:48:05 05/30/10 (6)
- "Hoist on your own petard????" Hardly! - Norm 20:21:56 06/17/10 (0)
- I've only shared two illusions on this site (so far) - kerr 09:46:16 06/01/10 (0)
- Why do pathological objectionists insist on projecting their hearing and/or... - carcass93 08:56:24 06/01/10 (3)
- Umm . . . the trick doesn't work so well after everyone has seen it. - Pat D 14:40:29 06/01/10 (2)
- No idea what you're referring to, but here's my best guess: - carcass93 15:00:14 06/01/10 (1)
- See! I told you, but . . . (nt) - Pat D 15:18:08 06/01/10 (0)
- RE: You can easily save yourself from tweak insanity; don't buy any. But why do you think you should tell others?* - Presto 20:50:39 05/29/10 (0)
- RE: I find it sort of funny.... - KlausR. 22:13:27 05/28/10 (50)
- RE: I find it sort of funny.... - Presto 01:09:02 05/29/10 (49)
- I just used single driver loudspeakers - morricab 05:38:23 06/02/10 (0)
- RE: I find it sort of funny.... - KlausR. 10:41:39 05/29/10 (47)
- RE: I find it sort of funny.... - Presto 21:21:46 05/29/10 (46)
- Re: so I don't think I can exchange with you on an eye-to-eye level - KlausR. 10:20:07 05/30/10 (45)
- You've opened a marvelous worm can here... - Presto 19:41:16 05/30/10 (44)
- Flat anechoically or in room? - morricab 05:26:16 06/03/10 (0)
- Opening worm cans is a specialty of mine! - KlausR. 21:56:32 05/31/10 (42)
- RE: Opening worm cans is a specialty of mine! - Tony Lauck 07:18:13 06/03/10 (39)
- RE: systems that measure flat at their listening position - KlausR. 00:55:19 06/04/10 (38)
- That's great... - E-Stat 12:12:16 06/05/10 (0)
- RE: systems that measure flat at their listening position - tomservo 16:35:55 06/04/10 (1)
- RE: systems that measure flat at their listening position - KlausR. 23:23:47 06/05/10 (0)
- RE: systems that measure flat at their listening position - Tony Lauck 06:40:14 06/04/10 (34)
- "measuring flat" is Klaus' intolerant straw man - Sordidman 16:18:02 06/04/10 (33)
- So having preferences different from yours constitutes "intolerance" and "blind arrogance?" (nt) - Pat D 16:05:45 06/05/10 (32)
- Nope, blind faith in poor measurements and denigrating experience does -t - Sordidman 10:54:25 06/07/10 (31)
- Measurements work for KlausR. What's your problem? - Pat D 16:46:00 06/07/10 (30)
- Misreading again? I said, nor implied nothing of the kind - Sordidman 10:45:25 06/08/10 (29)
- RE: erroneous conclusions - KlausR. 04:38:42 06/09/10 (26)
- ""which criteria happened to be non-subjective"" - Sordidman 16:55:14 06/09/10 (23)
- RE: ""which criteria happened to be non-subjective"" - Tony Lauck 08:37:28 06/10/10 (1)
- Design as you go; then make adjustments - Sordidman 09:40:58 06/10/10 (0)
- RE: Good sound is the goal, and it is entirely subjective. - KlausR. 21:55:21 06/09/10 (20)
- It's either a "fact" or it isn't - Sordidman 09:32:46 06/10/10 (19)
- There is no defintion for art, but audio definitely is not art! - KlausR. 22:04:28 06/10/10 (18)
- Not your decision: Art is whatever any artist says it is.... - Sordidman 09:40:23 06/11/10 (17)
- RE: That is clearly crap - KlausR. 13:38:08 06/12/10 (9)
- Case Closed? Not -- I doubt it will ever be closed. - Tony Lauck 10:39:18 06/13/10 (8)
- Meyer/Moran threads - KlausR. 08:19:20 06/14/10 (7)
- RE: Meyer/Moran threads - Tony Lauck 08:46:22 06/14/10 (6)
- RE: I don't know why you didn't find my posts - KlausR. 14:01:54 06/14/10 (5)
- RE: I don't know why you didn't find my posts - Tony Lauck 15:08:58 06/14/10 (4)
- RE: I have faith in Brad's personal integrity - KlausR. 02:47:48 06/15/10 (3)
- RE: I have faith in Brad's personal integrity - Tony Lauck 08:58:27 06/15/10 (2)
- Some (final) points - KlausR. 09:13:40 06/16/10 (1)
- RE: Some (final) points - Tony Lauck 09:41:45 06/16/10 (0)
- RE: Not your decision: Art is whatever any artist says it is.... - Tony Lauck 11:09:54 06/11/10 (6)
- Accuracy? - Sordidman 12:24:33 06/11/10 (5)
- RE: Accuracy? - Tony Lauck 13:16:58 06/11/10 (4)
- There's a lot of anger out there.......... - Sordidman 14:25:35 06/11/10 (3)
- RE: There's a lot of anger out there.......... - Tony Lauck 15:04:29 06/11/10 (2)
- RE: There's a lot of anger out there.......... - Sordidman 15:43:42 06/11/10 (1)
- RE: There's a lot of anger out there.......... - Tony Lauck 17:33:16 06/11/10 (0)
- RE: erroneous conclusions - Tony Lauck 07:42:27 06/09/10 (1)
- RE: Conflict - KlausR. 21:31:00 06/09/10 (0)
- You just illustrated what I said! (nt) - Pat D 14:47:31 06/08/10 (1)
- No, but Whatever: time to get off the schoolyard (nt) - Sordidman 16:02:20 06/08/10 (0)
- On flat response... - Presto 10:18:29 06/01/10 (1)
- Agreement on all points (nt) - KlausR. 07:34:29 06/02/10 (0)