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Apples and Oranges

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In Reply to: RE: L.A. Times article concerning blind wine taste tests. posted by Al Sekela on September 07, 2009 at 14:51:00

Wine tasting is for taste preference, which may not be stable.

Same/different audio DBTs do not determine what one prefers, only whether the results show the difference is detectable.

"Probability is the very guide to life."---Cicero

Follow Ups:

...are both sold by weight. - Al Sekela 16:16:56 09/09/09 (73)
- Resolution? That would involve scientific validation... - mkuller 13:40:10 09/10/09 (72)
  - RE: Resolution? That would involve scientific validation... - Todd Krieger 14:26:11 09/10/09 (71)
    - RE: Resolution? That would involve scientific validation... - Pat D 17:54:51 09/10/09 (70)
      - RE: Resolution? That would involve scientific validation... - Todd Krieger 23:13:28 09/10/09 (8)
        
        RE: Resolution? That would involve scientific validation... - theaudiohobby 05:47:58 09/11/09 (6)
        
        True Audio DBT, Explained................ - Todd Krieger 09:32:31 09/11/09 (3)
        
        RE: Weird................. - theaudiohobby 11:14:16 09/11/09 (2)
        
        For Those Bent on Proof and Accuracy, We Must Be Consistent............ - Todd Krieger 13:19:30 09/11/09 (1)
        
        RE: For Those Bent on Proof and Accuracy, We Must Be Consistent............ - theaudiohobby 13:36:12 09/11/09 (0)
        
        RE: Resolution? That would involve scientific validation... - Tony Lauck 08:03:24 09/11/09 (1)
        
        RE: Thanks Tony -nt - theaudiohobby 10:26:02 09/11/09 (0)
        
        RE: Resolution? That would involve scientific validation... - Pat D 04:57:01 09/11/09 (0)
      - Is that a strawman of your own construction? (nt) - mkuller 21:18:18 09/10/09 (60)
        
        ROFL: Sighted auditioning is hardly a straw man!! - Pat D 04:49:48 09/11/09 (59)
        
        RE: ROFL: Sighted auditioning is hardly a straw man!! - morricab 03:55:39 09/16/09 (0)
        
        According to J. Gordon Holt... - mkuller 10:30:46 09/11/09 (57)
        
        I'm sure J. Gordon Holt was a fine man, - Pat D 14:06:00 09/11/09 (53)
        
        Can you show me scientific validation... - mkuller 14:14:23 09/11/09 (52)
        
        Is sighted auditioning scientifically calibrated? - Pat D 15:45:17 09/12/09 (51)
        
        Then how about for the claim you made? - mkuller 10:54:57 09/13/09 (34)
        
        How can I believe or disbelieve a meaningless claim? - Pat D 07:00:12 09/14/09 (32)
        
        How do you calibrate an audio DBT? - mkuller 09:37:30 09/14/09 (31)
        
        Been there, done that. - Pat D 08:40:06 09/18/09 (30)
        
        So you're calibrating the listeners? - mkuller 10:55:36 09/18/09 (29)
        
        Ummmm . . . it's people who listen. (nt) - Pat D 13:33:58 09/20/09 (28)
        
        I think you've got it! - robert young 13:46:27 09/20/09 (27)
        
        Of course I do. - Pat D 19:19:45 09/20/09 (26)
        
        You don't get to re-write my question to fit your own agenda. - robert young 10:25:56 09/21/09 (24)
        
        You are just totally confused. - Pat D 12:01:28 09/21/09 (23)
        
        Not a bit, Pat, and I still don't accept you hijacking the question asked. - robert young 14:36:03 09/21/09 (22)
        
        RE: Worthwhile discussion - theaudiohobby 02:36:35 09/22/09 (17)
        
        If only it were a worthwhile discussion... - robert young 05:39:24 09/22/09 (16)
        
        Equipment isn't audible in itself, only in relation to listeners. - Pat D 08:41:48 09/22/09 (15)
        
        Try not to be such a twit, Pat. - robert young 09:27:15 09/22/09 (14)
        
        You are still confused. - Pat D 10:39:40 09/22/09 (13)
        
        No, Pat. But you can keep telling yourself that. - robert young 16:40:01 09/22/09 (12)
        
        RE: Surely the test design follows the test objectives. - theaudiohobby 05:14:47 09/23/09 (11)
        
        partially agree.... - robert young 06:05:04 09/23/09 (10)
        
        RE: calibration provide answers to a different question - theaudiohobby 07:32:20 09/23/09 (9)
        
        RE: calibration provide answers to a different question - robert young 08:36:08 09/23/09 (8)
        
        RE: calibration provide answers to a different question - theaudiohobby 15:31:57 09/23/09 (7)
        
        sorry, been away... - robert young 14:46:19 09/28/09 (6)
        
        RE: sorry, took a while to respond - theaudiohobby 02:37:04 09/30/09 (5)
        
        RE: sorry, took a while to respond - robert young 12:06:31 09/30/09 (4)
        
        RE: sorry, took a while to respond - theaudiohobby 13:10:11 10/11/09 (3)
        
        sorry, but you are quite incorrect. - robert young 14:52:43 10/11/09 (2)
        
        RE: sorry, but you are quite incorrect. - theaudiohobby 09:24:54 10/12/09 (1)
        
        RE: sorry, but you are quite incorrect. - robert young 03:20:38 10/13/09 (0)
        
        Well, if you can't ask a good question . . . - Pat D 19:08:17 09/21/09 (3)
        
        If you can't answer ANY question.... - robert young 19:30:34 09/21/09 (2)
        
        When questions contain contrary to fact assumptions or are illogical, they need restating. (nt) - Pat D 10:41:33 09/22/09 (1)
        
        Bullshit. - robert young 11:23:09 09/22/09 (0)
        
        Without validation and calibration of the test's sensitivity... - mkuller 19:34:31 09/20/09 (0)
        
        Good luck! - E-Stat 06:13:47 09/14/09 (0)
        
        Nope - kerr 18:55:36 09/12/09 (15)
        
        A Forum, not a Tribunal - Tony Lauck 13:27:27 09/13/09 (1)
        
        RE: A Forum, not a Tribunal - kerr 04:45:59 09/14/09 (0)
        
        You have to realize his arguements are circular and rely on semantics, rather than substance...(nt) - mkuller 11:59:05 09/13/09 (0)
        
        RE: Nope - Pat D 10:02:19 09/13/09 (11)
        
        Hmmm... - kerr 04:42:57 09/14/09 (10)
        
        Mkuller made a meaningless claim. - Pat D 07:02:38 09/14/09 (9)
        
        What makes it meaningless? - kerr 10:27:17 09/14/09 (8)
        
        As I said, he only argues semantics, not substance... - mkuller 11:37:22 09/14/09 (6)
        
        RE: As I said, he only argues semantics, not substance... - kerr 04:59:53 09/15/09 (5)
        
        RE: As I said, he only argues semantics, not substance... - Tony Lauck 11:44:41 09/15/09 (3)
        
        RE: As I said, he only argues semantics, not substance... - kerr 04:05:54 09/17/09 (0)
        
        RE: As I said, he only argues semantics, not substance... - morricab 04:13:09 09/16/09 (1)
        
        RE: As I said, he only argues semantics, not substance... - Tony Lauck 05:21:59 09/16/09 (0)
        
        One of mkuller's repeated refrains . . . - Pat D 08:01:12 09/15/09 (0)
        
        RE: What makes it meaningless? - Pat D 10:34:06 09/14/09 (0)
        
        And... - E-Stat 13:58:01 09/11/09 (2)
        
        RE: And... - Pat D 14:08:05 09/11/09 (1)
        
        That would be The Imperial Codec Wizards - E-Stat 14:37:07 09/11/09 (0)
That's an "ABX" Test............. - Todd Krieger 01:07:52 09/09/09 (49)
- RE: That's an "ABX" Test............. - theaudiohobby 04:00:55 09/09/09 (48)
  - Link To My Original Post on "DBTs" in Audio............ - Todd Krieger 09:46:51 09/09/09 (34)
    - RE: Link To My Original Post on "DBTs" in Audio............ - theaudiohobby 11:21:33 09/09/09 (33)
      - RE: Link To My Original Post on "DBTs" in Audio............ - Todd Krieger 11:40:32 09/09/09 (32)
        
        RE: Link To My Original Post on "DBTs" in Audio............ - theaudiohobby 12:10:55 09/09/09 (31)
        
        RE: Link To My Original Post on "DBTs" in Audio............ - Todd Krieger 13:19:10 09/09/09 (30)
        
        RE: Link To My Original Post on "DBTs" in Audio............ - theaudiohobby 14:14:10 09/09/09 (29)
        
        RE: Link To My Original Post on "DBTs" in Audio............ - Todd Krieger 17:55:36 09/09/09 (28)
        
        RE: Link To My Original Post on "DBTs" in Audio............ - theaudiohobby 06:02:26 09/11/09 (27)
        
        You're Confusing "Blind" with "Double Blind".......... - Todd Krieger 13:06:38 09/11/09 (25)
        
        RE: I am not, you are .......... - theaudiohobby 13:48:47 09/11/09 (24)
        
        You two seem to be using different definitions of "double-blind.: - robert young 14:29:54 09/11/09 (23)
        
        RE: You two seem to be using different definitions of "double-blind.: - theaudiohobby 15:05:14 09/11/09 (7)
        
        What does that have to do with the medical definition of "double-blind??" - robert young 16:50:47 09/11/09 (6)
        
        RE: What does that have to do with the medical definition of "double-blind??" - theaudiohobby 16:34:57 09/12/09 (1)
        
        But you don't regress at all! On the contrary, you're at the heart of the matter! - robert young 06:24:57 09/13/09 (0)
        
        RE: My original assessment was correct..... - theaudiohobby 10:43:46 09/12/09 (3)
        
        Another cop-out. - robert young 11:27:50 09/12/09 (2)
        
        RE: I can see you are raring to go - theaudiohobby 15:35:16 09/12/09 (1)
        
        As Kerr posted below... - robert young 05:04:22 09/13/09 (0)
        
        RE: You two seem to be using different definitions of "double-blind.: - Todd Krieger 14:55:44 09/11/09 (14)
        
        Yep. Forced choice = potential for bias effect. - robert young 16:56:28 09/11/09 (12)
        
        RE: Yep. Forced choice = potential for bias effect. - mls-stl 08:55:08 09/14/09 (11)
        
        And I find interesting - E-Stat 15:14:23 09/14/09 (0)
        
        You're right... - robert young 09:21:42 09/14/09 (9)
        
        RE: You're right... - Tony Lauck 11:22:25 09/14/09 (5)
        
        RE: You're right... - mls-stl 14:58:17 09/14/09 (4)
        
        RE: You're right... - Tony Lauck 16:49:54 09/14/09 (1)
        
        RE: You're right... - mls-stl 17:10:05 09/14/09 (0)
        
        RE: You're right... - robert young 15:36:44 09/14/09 (1)
        
        RE: You're right... - mls-stl 17:12:07 09/14/09 (0)
        
        Blind vs Sighted - kerr 10:25:36 09/14/09 (2)
        
        RE: Blind vs Sighted - robert young 12:07:18 09/14/09 (1)
        
        If I *could* have... - kerr 06:15:09 09/15/09 (0)
        
        Or as the link TAH provided terms it... - E-Stat 16:42:48 09/11/09 (0)
        
        For some unknown reason... - E-Stat 07:54:43 09/11/09 (0)
  - uh..... - robert young 04:47:34 09/09/09 (12)
    - RE: rather..... - theaudiohobby 05:32:02 09/09/09 (11)
      - Time to back up that statement. - robert young 06:16:05 09/09/09 (10)
        
        RE: Not interested in having a pointless discussion - theaudiohobby 08:10:56 09/09/09 (9)
        
        Just exactly what I thought you'd say... - robert young 08:20:53 09/09/09 (8)
        
        "highly-refined rhetorical skills" - that's one of the meanest put-downs I've read here, in a long time. - carcass93 11:00:21 09/21/09 (0)
        
        When you are unable to answer questions and all else fails... - E-Stat 10:34:03 09/09/09 (3)
        
        Thanks for the wander down memory lane... - robert young 11:48:03 09/09/09 (2)
        
        I have enjoyed a number of your responses - E-Stat 11:58:28 09/09/09 (1)
        
        RE: I have enjoyed a number of your responses - robert young 15:05:26 09/09/09 (0)
        
        RE: Thanks for the laugh - theaudiohobby 09:02:37 09/09/09 (2)
        
        Another embarrassing cop-out. - robert young 10:34:10 09/09/09 (0)
        
        Your crash and burn is noted. Anyone else care to pilot DBT Airlines? (nt) - kerr 09:10:08 09/09/09 (0)

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