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In Reply to: RE: That's true -- it is worse than you thought. ..... Audiophiles have great difficulty proving hearing abilities ... posted by Richard BassNut Greene on December 17, 2007 at 07:43:31
Oh Richard when will you ever stop pretending what you believe is what the truth actually is?1) You mistakenly claim some have abilities they claim to possess, but can't demonstrate to any witnesses, except with speakers.
The reality is I have proven I can detect differences in wires to witnesses. But you refuse to accept that has truth because you don't know the witnesses. On top of that you've also refused to accept every offer I've extended to provide the proof to you directly in person!
2) Public demonstrations of audiophile abilities are quite different than personal beliefs that "everything sounds different".
Once again the reality is, I don't know one person (besides YOU) who claims "everything sounds different". What subjectivists believe is audio components can sound different, and listening is the best whay to determine in what ways they sound different, if and when they sound different.
2a) Of course in public demonstrations the components being compared play music at the same SPL, which could significantly reduce audible differences.
So you're now trying to claim in ALL in public demonstrations the components being compared are always played at the same SPL? Good luck trying to prove that one! In addition matched SPLs aren't quite the issue you make them out to be, provided the volume is set to as low as possible and the listener is allowed to turn it up the volume they want to listen at.
2b) And the brand names are hidden.
I suppose for some newbies names matter more than sound quality, but as I've told you numerous times before, I have many times prefered the sound of a audio component I didn't know as well as I knew of another. Or I prefered the sound of an audio component I thought wouldn't sound as good as another component, or finally I've prefered the audio component that wasn't as "pretty" as another audio component. Names and looks don't have the appeal to me as they apparently do for you. As I've also said before numerous times the ONLY time looks would matter would be if I compared 2 different audio components and came to the conclusion that either a) they sounded about the same or b) they sounded different but with different pluses and minuses, neither being better just different. In that case and ONLY in that case would I buy what I thought was the better looking component. In that senerio ONLY would looks be a consideration.
3) I can't speak for you, but I don't need to know the brand names
to hear what a component sounds like ...Actually the reality is brand names must effect how you listen and what you hear! This fact is revealed in your adament belief that's how it works for so many others! If it didn't effect how you listened, you wouldn't have such great difficultly accepting when others told you (like myself) that this isn't isn't an issue for them either! Yet we witness the countless times you refuse to accept this simple truth. The fact is I don't need to know the brand names to hear what a component sounds like, but unlike you I'm not hindered from knowing what a component sounds like by knowing it's name either...
4) I don't want to compare components playing at different SPLs, which could create an audible difference when none would exist when playing music at identical SPLs.
Now you basically repeating your SPL arguement for a 2nd time in the same post --see #2a above. SPL matching is really only critical when doing instant switching bewteen two components. Personally I NEVER really audtion components like that so it doesn't really matter. As you've made me say via your constant whinning about SPLs, they don't really matter provided the volume is set to as low as possible and the listener is allowed to turn it up the volume they want to listen at.
5) My own experiences, including many audiophiles I have witnessed, shows that "everything sounds different" is only "true" when it is strongly believed, and never tested.My own experiences, including many objective audiophiles I have witnessed, shows that the belief "everything sounds different" is only "true" for objectivists, who for some demented reason only they can define, attribute this fantasy of theirs to subjectivists who never claimed they believed this in the first place!
6) I think it makes audiophiles look foolish when any one of us claims "everything sounds different".
Well then you objectivists should stop making this claim and all audiophiles would look less foolish for it! I know you love to claim this is a subjectivist's belief Richard, perhaps you could come up with some proof besides just saying it's so? Maybe a post written by a subjectivist here on Audio Asylum for example.
7) I think it makes audiophiles look foolish when any one of us just argues that tests are no good.
So it's foolish to argue and show the errors in an objectivist's acceptance via blind faith in the "null hypothesis"? Afterall the null hypothesis cannot be absolutely proven by statistics, so the acceptance of this belief requires faith, on the part of objectivists no? Or it's foolish to point out how in medicine DBTs have been scientifically validated for this use, but in audio they haven't? Or it's foolish to point out how you claim to believe years and years of audio DBTs have proved people cannot hear differences in components with SPLs matched, yet you'll question any DBTs were differences are detected, and automatically determine them to be flawed?
7) As if listening to audio components with the brand names hidden
is so difficult!As if it's any more difficult to listen to audio components with the brand names not hidden? The problem seems to lie within YOU Richard, no where else. See I don't have a problem my friend. You do that's why you're always talking about us...
Thetubeguy1954
A Rational Subjectivist
Edits: 12/18/07Follow Ups:
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