Propeller Head Plaza

Perhaps you all might agree with the conclusion more?

70.240.14.48

In Reply to: RE: Boston Audio Society Strikes Again! posted by Charles Hansen on September 11, 2007 at 09:44:35

That is, if any of you have an AES membership to read it. But, I guess nobody here does... Oh! Wait. I've got the article right here. Along with your moms. ZING!

"Virtually all of the SACD and DVD-A recordings sounded better than most CDs — sometimes much better... Partly because these recordings have not captured a large portion of the consumer market for music, engineers and producers are being given the freedom to produce recordings that sound as good as they can make them, without having to compress or equalize the signal to suit lesser systems and casual listening conditions... Our test results indicate that all of these recordings could be released on conventional CDs with no audible difference. They would not, however, find such a reliable conduit to the homes of those with the systems and listening habits to appreciate them. The secret, for two-channel recordings at least, seems to lie not in the high-bit recording but in the high-bit market."

In other words, SACD and DVD-A releases generally sound better than CD, for reasons that have nothing to do with the encoding. Everybody - including (almost) all the DBT folks at HydrogenAudio - agree with that.

Follow Ups:

Since you've evinced intelligent interest in this topic... - clarkjohnsen 08:31:51 09/14/07 (0)
So it's good news that SACD remains niche - Feanor 09:53:01 09/12/07 (1)
- I'd say Sony (and others) were hoping - bjh 10:47:13 09/12/07 (0)
"I guess nobody here... has AES membership." LOL! - clarkjohnsen 09:38:16 09/12/07 (89)
- Touché. I'm just a little surprised at... - Axon 22:45:50 09/12/07 (88)
  - I confess that I'm confused - E-Stat 15:53:34 09/13/07 (74)
    - No contradiction, but I may have confused you - Axon 21:50:45 09/13/07 (72)
      - RE: No contradiction, but I may have confused you - Dan Banquer 06:45:22 09/14/07 (2)
        
        RE: No contradiction, but I may have confused you - krabapple 09:36:17 09/20/07 (1)
        
        RE: No contradiction, but I may have confused you - Dan Banquer 09:58:00 09/20/07 (0)
      - Convenient assumption - E-Stat 06:33:53 09/14/07 (51)
        
        you got me. I need to retake logic 101. Round 3: - Axon 08:14:16 09/14/07 (50)
        
        With any kind of test - E-Stat 08:36:48 09/14/07 (49)
        
        you're really struggling here - truthseekerprime 07:01:48 09/16/07 (48)
        
        "Demonstrated that FOR THE SAME RECORDING reducing the resolution did not have an audible effect." NO! - clarkjohnsen 10:49:26 09/17/07 (34)
        
        RE: That clears up a lot! - EBradMeyer 21:24:25 09/21/07 (33)
        
        "A CD would have sounded the same." Good to know, but bland assertions are not proof. Besides... - clarkjohnsen 08:42:46 09/22/07 (32)
        
        RE: "Memory Player that produces a sonic result superior to any other" - tlyyra 08:49:21 09/24/07 (0)
        
        RE: That clears up a lot! - EBradMeyer 07:01:54 09/23/07 (19)
        
        "I give you The Church of the Latter Day Saints." So that's what it's going to be, is it? - clarkjohnsen 08:54:32 09/24/07 (18)
        
        RE: "I give you The Church of the Latter Day Saints." So that's what it's going to be, is it? - EBradMeyer 14:18:08 09/24/07 (1)
        
        "The device we were using is a recording system, which passes a signal *through* it." Oh. - clarkjohnsen 10:13:34 09/25/07 (0)
        
        RE: "I give you The Church of the Latter Day Saints." So that's what it's going to be, is it? - EBradMeyer 13:53:30 09/24/07 (15)
        
        "It's not up to me to prove reviewers can't hear the huge differences." LOL! You made the assertion... - clarkjohnsen 09:59:20 09/25/07 (8)
        
        Still bullshitting? - tlyyra 10:21:25 09/26/07 (2)
        
        I be happy you continue to delude yourself. Couldn't happen to a more appropriate guy. - clarkjohnsen 11:22:48 09/28/07 (1)
        
        Done that - tlyyra 10:05:26 09/29/07 (0)
        
        RE: "It's not up to me, etc." - EBradMeyer 11:28:48 09/25/07 (4)
        
        "They're... way to risky for you." Oh geez, puh-leeze. - clarkjohnsen 09:16:22 09/26/07 (0)
        
        You're correct - it has been demonstrated. Don't bother arguing with him; it's an utter waste of time. /nt - truthseekerprime 20:01:22 09/25/07 (2)
        
        "It has been demonstrated" all right... that it's "a crock". That's if you pay any attention to... - clarkjohnsen 09:24:08 09/26/07 (0)
        
        RE: You're correct etc. - EBradMeyer 07:32:26 09/26/07 (0)
        
        Complettely OT - ABXing absolute polarity - Axon 22:32:57 09/24/07 (5)
        
        RE: Complettely OT - ABXing absolute polarity - EBradMeyer 01:33:16 09/25/07 (4)
        
        You underestimate the thickness of my skull - Axon 05:52:32 09/25/07 (3)
        
        RE: You underestimate the thickness of my skull - EBradMeyer 11:33:53 09/25/07 (2)
        
        No pain, no gain! - Axon 16:54:20 09/26/07 (1)
        
        RE: No pain, no gain! - EBradMeyer 07:40:47 09/27/07 (0)
        
        RE: "A CD would have sounded the same." Good to know, but bland assertions are not proof. Besides... - krabapple 16:24:39 09/22/07 (1)
        
        AA posts as "uncontradicted evidence" - tlyyra 03:30:22 09/23/07 (0)
        
        You're right Clark, but that's not the point. - rick_m 12:34:04 09/22/07 (8)
        
        Thank you. But even "going astray", while that does happen, is not the core of my argument. - clarkjohnsen 11:09:23 09/23/07 (7)
        
        RE: Thank you. But even "going astray", while that does happen, is not the core of my argument. - rick_m 13:09:12 09/23/07 (6)
        
        "They have eliminated [CD playback] as a variable," True; but then they try to tell us... - clarkjohnsen 08:26:14 09/24/07 (5)
        
        Having now read it... - rick_m 09:07:04 09/25/07 (1)
        
        "I wasn't missing much." Indeed not. Yet I got challenged for calling it a quick read! nt - clarkjohnsen 10:02:59 09/25/07 (0)
        
        OK,Ok,ok - rick_m 09:14:13 09/24/07 (2)
        
        This URL may get you to it. - clarkjohnsen 09:33:57 09/24/07 (1)
        
        Excellent, thanks! nt - rick_m 09:46:55 09/24/07 (0)
        
        Struggling for what? - E-Stat 09:11:00 09/16/07 (12)
        
        (See my post above.) nt - clarkjohnsen 10:50:12 09/17/07 (0)
        
        I guess basic reading comprehension - truthseekerprime 13:19:50 09/16/07 (10)
        
        So, professor - E-Stat 17:56:52 09/16/07 (9)
        
        "Our test results indicate that all of these recordings could be released on conventional CDs... - truthseekerprime 20:28:50 09/16/07 (8)
        
        Anecdotally, I think it may be true. - rick_m 10:17:47 09/20/07 (0)
        
        As have I - E-Stat 21:23:00 09/16/07 (6)
        
        RE: As have I - krabapple 09:43:44 09/20/07 (5)
        
        The common term for your explanation - E-Stat 09:56:29 09/20/07 (4)
        
        RE: The common term for your explanation - krabapple 16:19:26 09/22/07 (1)
        
        There is a difference - E-Stat 09:01:51 09/23/07 (0)
        
        A whole lot o' speculatin' goin' on in the paper too. nt - clarkjohnsen 09:05:42 09/22/07 (1)
        
        In stark contrast to your pamphlet that was so convincingly argued that you had to pay for it to get printed? - tlyyra 03:33:55 09/23/07 (0)
      - Hmmm, that's certainly an illogical conclusion - Ted Smith 22:08:08 09/13/07 (16)
        
        Provably wrong - Axon 08:05:00 09/14/07 (15)
        
        Baloney - Ted Smith 08:45:36 09/14/07 (14)
        
        RE: Baloney - krabapple 09:57:13 09/20/07 (10)
        
        RE: Baloney - Ted Smith 11:17:21 09/20/07 (9)
        
        RE: Baloney - krabapple 16:28:51 09/22/07 (1)
        
        Yep, Why haven't you addressed any of the points in my posts? - Ted Smith 16:36:19 09/22/07 (0)
        
        So... your opinion on the JAES paper is...? nt - clarkjohnsen 09:07:52 09/22/07 (6)
        
        A crock? - Ted Smith 10:47:03 09/22/07 (5)
        
        "It shows an unbelievable degree of unsophistication." Oh I believe it all right! - clarkjohnsen 08:37:07 09/24/07 (0)
        
        So you read the article, then? - tlyyra 14:09:42 09/22/07 (3)
        
        I do believe in good science and enjoy the result of the same (including DSD) - Ted Smith 14:56:04 09/22/07 (2)
        
        Can you believe that guy? "Maybe I read too much into your CV." - clarkjohnsen 10:22:39 09/23/07 (1)
        
        RE: Can you believe that guy? "Maybe I read too much into your CV." - Ted Smith 16:55:34 09/23/07 (0)
        
        I'll admit I don't have enough experience with SACD/DVD-A... - Axon 12:08:52 09/14/07 (2)
        
        RE: I'll admit I don't have enough experience with SACD/DVD-A... - krabapple 10:02:47 09/20/07 (0)
        
        RE: I'll admit I don't have enough experience with SACD/DVD-A... - Ted Smith 13:46:35 09/14/07 (0)
    - Perhaps a key element of the test wasn't disclosed. - Bruce Kendall 16:00:11 09/13/07 (0)
  - Right. I'm not concerned about the DBT aspect, rather the really sloppy experimental procedures... - clarkjohnsen 12:07:29 09/13/07 (12)
    - Yeah, I've read it. - Axon 12:36:04 09/13/07 (11)
      - Your observations are mostly well-taken. Still I have concerns. - clarkjohnsen 08:22:26 09/14/07 (10)
        
        RE: That clears up a lot! - EBradMeyer 10:19:54 09/23/07 (0)
        
        RE: "what the equipment was, esp. the speakers" - tlyyra 09:36:57 09/14/07 (8)
        
        Are you involved in some sort of contest or something? - Bruce Kendall 12:10:19 09/14/07 (3)
        
        He's a bitter man, a bully, and an unworthy opponent -- misrepresentation is his only game. nt - clarkjohnsen 09:22:32 09/15/07 (1)
        
        Speaking of bitterness - tlyyra 12:23:57 09/15/07 (0)
        
        ??? - tlyyra 04:23:52 09/15/07 (0)
        
        Frankly, My dear... - bjh 10:55:46 09/14/07 (3)
        
        RE: Frankly, My dear... - tlyyra 11:56:44 09/14/07 (2)
        
        Toots a simple, "No, I don't want to comment" would have been entirely sufficient. - bjh 12:36:05 09/14/07 (1)
        
        Sorry if it was too complicated - tlyyra 04:48:17 09/15/07 (0)
RE: Perhaps you all might agree with the conclusion more? - Dan Banquer 05:45:16 09/12/07 (0)
RE: Perhaps you all might agree with the conclusion more? - Todd Krieger 01:06:08 09/12/07 (7)
- "a study was seemingly brought up out of thin air with a desired outcome" - andy_c 20:16:25 09/12/07 (0)
- "The... sacred belief that because it's an AES article, it's automatically truth and ought not be challenged." - clarkjohnsen 09:35:51 09/12/07 (5)
  - From the book of Positive Feedback, chapter 8, verse 5. And the Lord CJ cast the devil from the redbook cd - AJinFLA 13:41:59 09/13/07 (0)
  - These Were Never True Peer Reviews to Begin With....... - Todd Krieger 11:07:02 09/12/07 (3)
    - Excellent post - Analog Scott 08:32:28 09/13/07 (0)
    - "Token peers," Omigosh, that sez it all! - clarkjohnsen 11:11:18 09/12/07 (1)
      - That's not sour grapes talking, is it? - tlyyra 09:54:11 09/14/07 (0)
RE: Perhaps you all might agree with the conclusion more? - theaudiohobby 00:47:32 09/12/07 (0)

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