[
Top of Page ]
[ Contact Us ]
[ Support/Wish List ]
[ Copyright © 2007, Audio Asylum, all rights reserved ]
[ General ] [ Speakers ] [ Tubes ] [ Vinyl ] [ Digital ] [ Hi-Rez ] [ Video Asylum ] [ Cables ] [ Tweaks/DIY ] [ Music ] [ Films ]
70.46.7.90
In Reply to: RE: Not DO, But WHY Speakers Require A "Break-In" Period posted by andy19191 on June 05, 2007 at 01:34:14
TG1954: I've performed this test (comparing new vs broken-in speakers of the same model) at least 5X and heard a difference between fully "broken-in" speakers and the new speakers every single time.
Andy19191: How? Making recordings in an identical manner and then comparing them would seem one possibility. Is this what you did?
TG1954: No that's not what I did. Whenever I buy a "new" audio component from an audio salon. I demand on getting their demo model. My original reasoning was a demo could be on the shelf anywhere fom 6-12 months. So if I purchased their demo as my new component I'd be extending my warranty by that 6-12 months the component had already been used.
When I'd ask for the demo model most audio salons would be reluctant to let it go, insisting I get a new-in-box model instead. But if I started walking out I could usually get the demo model! When I asked one salesperson why he didn't want to sell me the demo model at first (it was an original Carver Amazing Speaker) he replied with what I thought at that time was "Because it's "broken." So I asked to hear a new-in-box vs this "broken" speaker. Being as how I was purchasing the demo and they needed to setup another pair he said "OK!" So we used the exact same recording, on the exact same system and compared the sound of a well-used demo speaker against a new out of the box speaker of the same model. The differences were quite large. I looked at the salesperson and said if that's a "broken" speaker it sure sounds better to me! The salesperson looked at me and laughed. Then he said "I said it's BROKE IN not BROKEN!" That's when I first learned about and actually heard a speaker that was "broke in". So Andy that's the process I use for this test. Same recording, same system exchanging the used speaker for a new speaker of the same model. I realize you don't believe that's a fair test, but I disagree.
=====================================================================
TG1954: However once these drivers have been flexed and moved through their normal usage they become more pliable, and they drivers adjust to a state of used flexibility that the new drivers don't have.
Andy19191: Indeed but how long does it take before the change becomes too small to be audible?
TG1954: This will depend on the materials used. I personally believe that most speakers are basically optimally broken in anywhere from 50-100 hrs, of course it could take more of less hours as well. It MUST also be stated that speakers will continue to break-in naturally throughout their lifespan, it's simply a fact that the most noticeable amount will occur early on. The reason for this is the greatest amount of change occurs at first. No one with any real understanding of the process is saying the speakers will never get worse. Eventually they will, but after they're initially broken in, that will be a long way down the road. In fact it will most likely be so slow and gradual that you won't even hear the deterioration until there's a serious problem which requires intervention to repair, that's why speakers eventually need to be reconed, surrounds need to be replaced or voice coils realigned.
========================================================================
Andy19191: How much "burn in" is typically performed before measuring to make matched pairs of drivers? Note that this operation will raise the price of the drivers and so is a good test of what is really worth paying for by people who almost certainly know what they are doing.
TG1954: Andy with this you're asking an audiophile a question that a speaker designer/manufacturer should really answer. What I believe happens is the OEM designer/manufacturer of the driver and the designer/manufacturer of the speakers that use them, developed the drivers/speakers in question by basing it's performance on what an "optimally" broken in driver/speaker sounds like. I'm sure initially they test a few pairs to be sure they sound the same when broken in. That's all part of their R&D. Once satisfied the drivers/speakers all break in as close to the same as they can possibly achieve, they manufacter the speakers with unbroken in drivers. So most of the cost is in R&D.
=====================================================================
TG1954: All anyone would has to do to verify this would be to go to their local audio dealer and ask them to directly compare a set of their well used demo speakers with a pair of the same speakers taken new out of a box in front of you.
Andy19191: This is not comparing apples with apples because the variability between speakers is far too large. You must compare a speaker with itself after "burning in" if this is the objective.
TG1954: Except for the most ardent scientific testing and the L.F.O.'s here on PHP, comparing a new-in-box speaker vs a speaker that's been used for 50-100hrs would serve as a good enough means of performing this test. Besides Andy you naysayers here are always saying how poor our audio memory is. So how is anyone supposed to remember what the speaker sounded like 50-100 hrs earlier? I believe if we took a group of people and performed the same test a few different times by comparing a demo speaker vs new-in-box speaker and "IF" they consistantly heard the same types of differences. That would be evidence enough.
That said I think your idea of comparing a speaker with itself after "burning in" has some merit. It would be interesting to see if the same speaker measured differently if taken from new-in-box to about 50-100hrs later and then changed minimally after that. Andy in physics it's a known phenomenon that materials with mechanical movement will have a physical change and eventual deterioration over a period of time and that's what speakers are doing when "breaking in". So I have to admit it really amazes me that all the objectivists and specs/measurements crowd here on PHP who are always ridiculing subjectivists for having a "but audio is special" attitude, are by claiming speakers do NOT "break in" are in fact the group saying "but audio is special."
Thetubeguy1954
Follow Ups:
Top of Page ]
[ Contact Us ]
[ Support/Wish List ]
[ Copyright © 2007, Audio Asylum, all rights reserved ]