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In Reply to: DAC jitter rejection posted by audioengr on April 5, 2012 at 13:05:39:
"If you were an engineer with experience designing DACs, you would know that its not that simple"
I am an engineer. And I can tell you, I extremely well understand your challenges. I got myself pretty deep into interface design.
You IMO ask a lot of money for your products compared to the competition.
I'd therefore expect a sophisticated solution.
If you still integrate prebuild stuff like hiface ( wavelength, centrance stuff wouldn't be any different in this regard) or whatever interface
you'll have difficulties to get around the limitations, which come with those designs. The same is valid for SPDIF interface chips.
Just building a nice power supply around it and doing some extra filtering might not be sufficient.
"The best solution IMO is to leave the D/A alone and feed it the lowest possible jitter source..."
Your simplistic logic makes me scream.
First of all you need to put a very thick and high wall between you and the source feeding you.
Some weeks ago we had pretty much the same discussion. And it was you mentioning something like "source related distortions are all about common mode noise. And you got it finally under control now"
???? What about it ?????
"What you evidently don't get is that it's the fixed frequency clock with low jitter..."
Believe me I got a deeper technical understanding about all this than you'd believe.
Meanwhile there are quite some designs with fixed clocks out there.
Even those need a well done source isolation.
Asynchronous USB transfer modes obviously improved over simplistic PCM2707 isynchronous implementations. However. There is still plenty of impact of source related distortions left. I've been running an isynchronous device with a reclocker behind it recently.
I can tell you, you wouldn't hear a difference to pure asynchronous ( even bulk transfer ) designs.
There are always more then one way to achieve the same thing.
And some ways are dead-ends. That you'll need to figure a out.
Otherwise you'll get stuck.
BTW: If running asynchronous transfers it doesn't mean that you get 100%
rid of source related digital jitter. But that you know.
Asynchronous USB is a nice marketing term.
In another post in this thread you talk about Sabre DAC chip coming with a great jitter rejection. I'd say you're reading too many marketing papers.
My (DIY) experience with Sabre DACs is that these are extremely sensitive on incoming distortions. There are products out there using multiple stages of jitter/noise rejection to make that Sabre Chip sound good.
And I'm sure. If you get your interface done. Intrinsic jitter effects, output stage effects, clock effects inside your DAC will play just a minor role in comparison on the overall result.
So. As I said.
From my point of view the absolute number one priority for all DAC manufacturers must be the goal to get the interfaces immune on source
related distortions. It shouldn't matter which source I use.
I find it funny to see that you as an engineer asks the masses ( simple consumers) to fix your more than challenging issues ( it's not only you - your competition gives similar advise ) by tweaking their sources.
I can tell you. That's pretty annoying for many people.
Exactly this is one reason why computer based audio feels like gambling for best sound by many people. And that includes me - as an engineer .
Cheers
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Follow Ups
- RE: DAC jitter rejection - soundchekk 01:57:57 04/06/12 (3)
- RE: DAC jitter rejection - Recorder 10:59:25 04/06/12 (0)
- RE: DAC jitter rejection - audioengr 10:49:44 04/06/12 (0)
- RE: DAC jitter rejection - Mercman 04:24:25 04/06/12 (0)
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