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196.3.50.254
In Reply to: RE: Studio vs high end posted by KlausR. on January 30, 2008 at 05:51:55
Klaus see the stereophile measurments posted above. The X1 is +- 2.5 db from 20Hz to 13 or so Khz IN-ROOM!!! Not this bogus anechoic crap you are peddling, which is on-axis only.
"The FR on-axis of the 1994 version looked quite bad, frankly"
Who cares about on-axis measurements, look at the in-room repsonse, which is quite good, and you will see more what you would hear at the listening position, Klaus.
"You are sure but you've never seen any measurements, did you?"
Yep comparing them directly I see I was very right the X1 is MUCH better in bass distortion, by more than 30db! Even at 18Hz the X1 is better than your speaker at 60Hz! LOL.
Besides if I want to make the X1 have as flat a FR as your speaker I would insert my favorite DSP unit and thus negate this unfair advantage of the K&H speaker. A TACT would do nicely I think.
"I could find, there was simply not one speaker which measured as well as mine do"
BS, Klaus. They only measure that well because of DSP. Anyone can get a flat FR with DSP, Klaus. The distortion in the bass for those speakers is 30db worse than an X1 where the X1 is playing 6 db louder (so nearly twice as loud).
It appears that you bought this speaker strictly for its flat on-axis FR and probably because it had amps (still think they are Class D as they have low power consumption and switching power supplies) and digital conversion built-in thus simplifying the chain. Afterall you keep parading around that FR curve like it means something in a real room.
"If you know of a speaker which is flat 20-20 ± 1.5 dB and does not cost 2-5 times more than mine (that includes pre-and 2x2500 Watt power amp), let me know.
"
See, again with the FR, which is only possible with your speaker because of DSP. Give me a cheap Paradigm speaker and a TACT and I will give you the same result. Besides it is only that good, Anechoically, do you have a real room measurement to show??
"Anechoic, because that's the only environment which allows for comparable measurements"
But its still not the real world, Klaus and tells you nothing about how it sounds.
"Of course, I'm talking FR on axis. FR on-axis is the first thing to look at and it's the first thing the designer has to get right."
With DSP it is TRIVIAL, Klaus. What you hear in a room is the combination of this with the dispersed sound. What does that measurement look like? It is fine your speaker does this right but it doesn't mean that it is superior overall.
"I'm talking FR right out of the box, not after correction"
Klaus, now you are being silly because your speaker has it built in so it is always using it. There is no "right out of the box". Besides, +-2.5db in-room is quite accepatable and other things will be more important, like cabinet and driver colorations, lack of integration etc...all of which a speaker like the X1 excels at.
"Schuck et al., “Perception of perceived sound in rooms: some results of the Athena project”, Audio Eng. Soc. 12th International Conference 1993
"
1993 was a LONG time ago, Klaus. Just play with a TaCT or a DEQX for a while and you will see what I mean.
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