Whiner's Woad

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I'm leaving

129.244.120.78
Posted on October 22, 2009 at 10:13:34
JustJoe
Audiophile

Posts: 128
Location: Essex
Joined: July 8, 2009
 there's too much protectionism of the audio mags on this forum. I put in a link to a simple website I found that critiques audio mags, a nice essay written by a guy called arthur salvatore.
I posted it here and it got deleted right away.
Sorry. too much censorship and protection here.
A waste of time.
Reading posts here or bothering to post.

Enjoy.
Blind testing of gear works: If it doesn't sound better with your eyes closed, then it doesn't sound better!
RE: I'm leaving, posted on October 23, 2009 at 07:38:17
Frank I
Audiophile

Posts: 745
Joined: December 9, 2001
 Since you never offered anything worthwhile Good Ridance

oh WELL, posted on October 22, 2009 at 15:49:17
hifitommy
Audiophile

Posts: 9514
Location: shaky sylmar calif, orig from buffalo ny
Joined: June 9, 2000
 if its an education in nothing (which is what AS says he hears), then youre doing the right thing. and if you go to hydrogen, be sure to state some opinions. they just LOVE that.

...regards...tr

RE: I'm leaving, posted on October 22, 2009 at 15:17:07
LinuxGuru
Audiophile

Posts: 109
Location: European Union
Joined: November 11, 2008
 Hi, JustJoe! Would you please e-mail PM me this link? Thanks.

You're a computer "guru", posted on October 22, 2009 at 18:39:58
E-Stat
Audiophile

Posts: 9842
Location: Central boonies
Joined: May 12, 2000
Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002
 and don't know how to use the search engine to locate a single phrase? Ok!

rw

RE: You're a computer "guru", posted on October 23, 2009 at 00:57:12
LinuxGuru
Audiophile

Posts: 109
Location: European Union
Joined: November 11, 2008
 The original post was deleted. Are you sure its possible to search a phrase I do not know a single word from? Is there a new type of search engine that can read someone else mind upon my will?
Hint: salvatore -nt, posted on October 23, 2009 at 10:37:45
E-Stat
Audiophile

Posts: 9842
Location: Central boonies
Joined: May 12, 2000
Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002
 rw

It's the right decision., posted on October 22, 2009 at 14:28:36
Dave Pogue
Audiophile

Posts: 7500
Location: DC Area
Joined: October 9, 2001
Contributor
  Since: March 18, 2003
 Stick to it.

Salvatore and Aczel says enough about you and your views..., posted on October 22, 2009 at 14:09:46
mkuller
Audiophile

Posts: 15951
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: April 22, 2003
Contributor
  Since: December 28, 2003
 ...that posting anymore here would be redundant, anyway.

Oh please..., posted on October 22, 2009 at 12:21:32
mt10425
Audiophile

Posts: 1211
Location: midwest
Joined: January 23, 2004
Contributor
  Since: March 7, 2009
 Your attitude is no less self-important than those you despise. Anyone who has read my post will know that I am anything but an audio mag protectionist. People are allowed to be whomever they choose to be. Take it or leave it OR as many here do, be entertained by it. Anyone who takes any of this banter personally likely needs to re-evaluate their personal priorities.



"Apparently, people now believe that mental telepathy is the foundation of communication and magic is the source of daily events. Consequently, we no longer have to participate in our own lives."
Use the search tool, posted on October 22, 2009 at 11:33:04
E-Stat
Audiophile

Posts: 9842
Location: Central boonies
Joined: May 12, 2000
Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002
 ...by a guy called arthur salvatore

where you'll find hundreds of posts about and by him that go back more than five years.

rw
"...beats watching the crap on TV" - looks like TV will work better for you., posted on October 22, 2009 at 11:27:35
carcass93
Audiophile

Posts: 2634
Location: NJ
Joined: September 20, 2006
 Seriously though, you should look into HydrogenAudio - your mindset, your beliefs, and your idols will make your posts instant hits there.

You're just the latest in a long line, posted on October 22, 2009 at 11:19:23
Jim Austin
Reviewer

Posts: 495
Location: Northern New England
Joined: November 8, 2007
 of people making the same tired argument. And Arthur Salvatore is a hypocrite.

Jim
http://www.jazz-etc.com
RE: You're just the latest in a long line, posted on October 22, 2009 at 16:04:31
Arthur Salvatore
Reviewer

Posts: 41
Joined: April 30, 2002
 The direction you have chosen, and the choices you have made, with your (audio) life, are truly sad, not to mention how you have wasted your privileged education.

Jim Austin's detailed attack of my website, from 2004, along with my response, is linked below. I highly advise anyone interested to read it. I promise that you will learn more about Jim Austin, within this one file, than in all his "reviews" and posts.

*******************************************************************

The replies below, that have been posted to my above letter, from Jim Austin, John Atkinson and Charles Hansen, have the same tired charges which I refuted years ago. I will not dignify them with a personal response. I will partially answer them here, and I highly advise readers to go to the Link below for a more detailed response.

*******************************************************************

Jim Austin wrote: The charge of "hypocrite"...is obvious and easy to defend...you often recommend components that you have not even heard. Do you deny it?

My Reply: You just can't help demonstrating your amazing ignorance. First of all, I don't "recommend" components, I only have "references". Further, when I did "recommend" components, I never criticized John Atkinson for recommending all the components he hasn't "even heard", so I can't be a hypocrite on this issue. I don't think you even know what a "hypocrite" is, despite all the "education" you're constantly bragging about.

Jim Austin wrote: Your own methodology, if you can call it that, involves disclosing NOTHING

My Reply: I disclose more information, about myself, and my transactions within the audio community, than anyone else in the entire audio journalistic world. Why don't you ask your friend, "Mikey Fremer", how much he actually paid for the Caliburn turntable and tonearm? I bet he won't even tell you within $ 2,000 +/-.

In summary, your reply, once again, is further proof that your vaunted "education" has about as much "prestige" and credibility as a Stereophile "Recommendation".

Jim Austin wrote: Loser

My Reply: Actually, here's the real deal...How I wish the professors, who gave you a degree, could read your irrational and ignorant ramblings. You have shamed them.

********************************************************************

John Atkinson wrote: I note from the Salvatore site that: Arthur Salvatore wrote: (1) "I have no direct experience comparing CDs with SACDs..." (and 2)..."I can state this with near certainty, because even though I've never heard the Titan..."

My Reply: Yes, I wrote the two above quotes, but you left out what comes after, meaning all the vital details. Thus, you are deliberately misleading readers by editing the context. I advise readers to go to the Link below, and read the "June 2009 Issue" for what Atkinson left out.

John Atkinson wrote: ...I have strongly felt that published reviewers should be accountable for what they write.

My Reply: This is another misleading charge. Since my website began 10 years ago, I have ALWAYS been "accountable" for everything that I, and my associates, have written. This is common and required when a journalist uses "confidential sources", in audio or for any other topic.

John Atkinson wrote: Until Arthur Salvatore cleans up his own act, it seems self-serving and hypocritical for him to claim any kind of moral high ground. I recommend audiophiles reach for a large grain of salt when they read his pronouncements.

My Reply: In the real world, virtually everyone has the "high ground" compared to you. Who else claims 50+ amplifiers are ALL "the best available". Who else, in independent journalistic history, gave "rave reviews" to 60+ components (or any other product) in a row. Only you, John Atkinson, can take "credit" for those abominations. You also don't know what a hypocrite is, though you should by now, with your own projections.

Further, I have nothing to "clean up". Meanwhile, I, and many others, are still waiting for "Mikey" to inform us what he paid, within $ 2,000, or just his %discount, to within 2% of the wholesale price, for his turntable and tonearm.

Finally, I will repeat something I wrote years ago on my website, which can be read in the Link below, and is more true today than ever:

What I do believe, and have proved beyond all doubt, is that under John Atkinson's direction, Stereophile is now "Commercial", to the fullest and most negative degree that word can be used. What was once a magazine that was truly reader-oriented, has degenerated into a magazine that can only be described as a pure marketing device, with its only goal now to "sell" the readers something.

That poor, sad and pathetic reality will be John Atkinson's true and lasting audio "legacy".

********************************************************************

Charles Hansen wrote: You claim that you are the only trustworthy reviewer because you disclose how much you paid for your equipment.

My Reply: That is a lie (1), one of many from you (just in this one short reply). I never claimed that I was "the only trustworthy reviewer". Anyone can Google that phrase to prove me right and you a liar.

Charles Hansen wrote: You fail to disclose that your "associates" who anonymously review equipment for you are actually close friends and equipment manufacturers who can hardly be expected to be free from bias.

My Reply: I have noted, for years now, that ONE of my associates is a manufacturer, so that charge is another lie (2). He is the only one, so the plural "manufacturerS" is yet another lie (3). The others are friends, and some are "close", but not all. If a speaker or amplifier manufacturer reviews digital sources, which he has no financial interests in, he can certainly be "free from bias".

Charles Hansen wrote: "Hypocritical" is about the most polite thing that can be said about you and your website.

My Reply: You have not proven even a hint of "hypocrisy". Meanwhile, I notice you attack the critics of Stereophile, asking for the "details" of corruption, while making even worse charges against me, with even less evidence. I think that makes you a REAL "Hypocrite", but then I don't believe you, like Austin, even know the true meaning of the word.

In short, Hansen, you are an embarrassment to Audio; Grovelling up to John Atkinson in a manner that makes one squirm. You should be working on improving your components rather than spending hours on this website, either promoting your products or defending the garbage that come out of Stereophile.

***********************************************************************

What a pathetic joke!, posted on October 22, 2009 at 21:36:13
Charles Hansen
Manufacturer

Posts: 4321
Joined: August 1, 2001
 You claim that you are the only trustworthy reviewer because you disclose how much you paid for your equipment.

But you fail to disclose that your "associates" who anonymously review equipment for you are actually close friends and equipment manufacturers who can hardly be expected to be free from bias.

"Hypocritical" is about the most polite thing that can be said about you and your website.

Beams vs Motes, posted on October 23, 2009 at 07:49:54
John Atkinson
Reviewer

Posts: 1901
Location: New York
Joined: November 24, 2003
 >You [Arthur Salvatore] claim that you are the only trustworthy reviewer
>because you disclose how much you paid for your equipment.
>But you fail to disclose that your "associates" who anonymously review
>equipment for you are actually close friends and equipment manufacturers
>who can hardly be expected to be free from bias.

On this subject, I note from the Salvatore site that:

1) Arthur Salvatore wrote, during a criticism of Sam Tellig preferring
the sound of CDs to SACDs, "I have no direct experience comparing CDs
with SACDs..."

2) Arthur Salvatore wrote, during a criticism of Michael Fremer’s
(justified)praise for the Musical FIdelity Titan amplifier, "I can state
this with near certainty, because even though I've never heard the
Titan..."

3) Arthur Salvatore wrote, during a criticism of Jim Austin’s 2004 Audio
Asylum posting where Jim was pointing out that Salvatore’s
recommendations of components he has not auditioned are due to their
being auditioned by anonymous "associates," that "I, as a journalist,
have no "obligation" to disclose my sources except if there is a conflict
of interest with my readers. . . . Confidential sources are always common
in fields where people are overly sensitive to criticism and vulnerable
if they are honest (like politics)."

Perhaps these may be minor issues for Mr. Salvatore, but they are major
ones for me. Both at Hi-Fi News and at Stereophile, I have strongly felt
that published reviewers should be accountable for what they write.
Everything you read in Stereophile, therefore, is identified with the
writer's name. Every recommendation that the magazine makes is based on
one of those named people having actually experienced the product
concerned. Our "Recommended Components" listing clearly identifies who
the reviewer was, when the review was published, and often notes doubts
and caveats that other writers who have auditioned the product might have
had.

Until Arthur Salvatore cleans up his own act, it seems self-serving and
hypocritical for him to claim any kind of moral high ground. I recommend
audiophiles reach for a large grain of salt when they read his
pronouncements.



John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile
Perfect addition to Whiner's Woad ! -nt, posted on October 22, 2009 at 19:28:46
E-Stat
Audiophile

Posts: 9842
Location: Central boonies
Joined: May 12, 2000
Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002
 rw

...and your (pathetic) response., posted on October 22, 2009 at 17:00:08
Jim Austin
Reviewer

Posts: 495
Location: Northern New England
Joined: November 8, 2007
 The charge of "hypocrite", which I made and stand behind, is obvious and easy to defend.

Your own methodology, if you can call it that, involves disclosing NOTHING and relying on the opinions of unspecified "friends" or "associates" or whatever you call them.

You might at least acknowledge, right here for everyone to see, that you often recommend components that you have not even heard. Do you deny it?

In that case, you have no leg to stand on. If your own methodology was remotely sound--and it is not--you might have some standing in challenging Stereophile.

Loser.

Jim
http://www.jazz-etc.com
RE: You're just the latest in a long line, posted on October 22, 2009 at 12:53:38
bjh
Audiophile

Posts: 11876
Location: Toronto, Canada
Joined: November 22, 2003
 Yeah, all those recommendations of gear AS never heard based on the word of unidentified trusted associates (I beleive be calls them).

But as for now having firsthand access to a lot of the gear, that I can understand, not the sort of stuff used in the PA system at the Legion Hall on Bingo nights.

LOL
Everything matters, don't forget to tweak your placebos!
If you lie down with dogs..., posted on October 22, 2009 at 11:15:15
Gag Halfrunt
Audiophile

Posts: 61
Joined: June 19, 2009
 ...you are going to get fleas.

You seem determined to support the morally bankrupt in their assault on the morally questionable. The perfidious nature of these individuals has been pointed out to you - at length - several times now, but each time you choose to ignore this.

That makes me consider you as reprehensible as those you purport to champion.

So, remember to bang your head on the way out. It might knock some sense into you.

Your passing can be best judged by, posted on October 22, 2009 at 10:53:21
bjh
Audiophile

Posts: 11876
Location: Toronto, Canada
Joined: November 22, 2003
 the appearance (or absense) of a post from Pat D bemoaning your loss.

LOL



Everything matters, don't forget to tweak your placebos!

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