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Is it kosha for an editor to close down an email account without informing the user?

90.209.167.204
Posted on September 15, 2009 at 05:31:11
chris.redmond2@bushinternet.com
Reviewer

Posts: 10208
Location: Lancashire.
Joined: January 21, 2001
 I recently 'resigned' from writing reviews for the Dagogo website on good terms, or so I thought, but after four or five days of correspondence with Yahoo about being unable to access my dagogo.com email address which they provided, it now transpires that the editor of Dagogo closed the account two weeks after we parted.

Now two weeks is plenty of time for me transfer contacts, emails and the numerous Paypal receipts I had with the dagogo account to another account I had, if I'd been told.

In fact, if the editor had told me that the account was being closed the following day I could possibly have done the job; as it was, I just got an error message when I tried to log in.

Now I've been informed by the editor that emails sent to me are ending up in what he calls a dagogo 'catch all' account, so basically the editor has access to any private emails I will be sent in the future, and possibly any emails already in the account although this may not be the case.

After a heated bout of correspondence by myself, I was informed very formally that the account was closed because I was no longer affiliated with Dagogo and that two weeks had passed since my resignation.

My contention is that anyone with an ounce of common courtesy would have informed me when this was going to happen, especially if we were both supposed to be on good terms.

After stating that I would post our complete email correspondence at the Asylum which he perceived to be a 'threat', all became clear why the discourtesy (in my opinion) had occurred, and why he was being so formal and cold now.

Apparently, I had left Dagogo after making a 'pledge to write for him indefinitely' which demonstrated that he did obviously have a grievance after all which explains to me at least what has happened.

Just to reiterate, I have no problem at all with the Dagogo account being closed and understand why this had to happen at some point, but there's no way on Earth I could have closed anyone else's account without sending a simple email first to check that they had removed or transferred everything they needed first.

Yes I'm peeved, and at some point I will be visiting the States to attend a show over there, and I'll make sure I meet Constantine face to face to tell him exactly what I think of him, but for now I'd welcome any feedback to say either I'm out of order or Constantine is, because I honestly would never have taken the action he did - even if I'd split from my 'employee' on bad terms I'd have told them to 'clear their desk' so to speak as their account was going to be closed.



Today is a gift - that's why it's called the Present.

Best Regards,
Chris Redmond.
LOL! Finally at Whiner's - what took so long? [nt], posted on September 18, 2009 at 11:16:39
chris.redmond2@bushinternet.com
Reviewer

Posts: 10208
Location: Lancashire.
Joined: January 21, 2001
 nt
Today is a gift - that's why it's called the Present.

Best Regards,
Chris Redmond.
should I or shouldn't I ? . . . only my priest knows for sure, posted on September 17, 2009 at 09:27:38
Bruce from DC
Bored Member

Posts: 18025
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Joined: October 13, 1999
Contributor
  Since: March 1, 1999
 IOW, should I jump into this dogpile or just remain a bemused bystander.

I confess, father: my worst instincts got the best of me and . . . I jumped!

Heh.

Small potatoes, Chris. Doing reviews gratis for a webzine really doesn't constitute "employment" in my view. It's more of a mutual favor. You get to play with some cool toys; your writing helps the owner of the 'zine make a few bucks (perhaps). So, I reject the analogy to employment by The Man, which many have proffered here. The coldness of a lawyer-vetted employment manual does not seem to be appropriate in this circumstances, IMHO.

Yeah, the more thoughtful thing to do would have been to have given you a heads-up that your e-mail account would be shut down in a couple of weeks. OTOH, Mr. Soo probably didn't think you used that account for anything other than Dagogo business; and, in fairness to him, he has a legitimate interest in your not being able to use his domain after your relationship with him has ended. Suppose, for example, in a fit of spite, you wrote an e-mail from that account to a manufacturer that said that his equipment was the biggest piece of crap Dagogo had ever seen. Not good for business, right? Not saying that you would or anything, but it's possible. So closing down an ex-writer's e-mail account is just a loose end that needs to be tied down, just in case.

And finally, I have to express some agreement with Spendor Harbeth that your dragging the issue here, in a fairly transparent effort to slam Mr. Soo, is beneath the high standard that we've all come to expect from you.

I cringe just a little at writing this, but remember, you're the one who asked the question. There's a basic rule I follow in my business: if I don't think I'm going to like the answer, I don't ask the question.

Good luck at 6Moons. Unlike some other audiophile e-zines, that one is still on my browser "bookmarks." Some of the stuff that's been on the site is really good; some of it not so good (in terms of the writing). If there's one thing I would improve about 6Moons, its the editing. A good editor would really improve some of the writing.

So, be a good editor of your stuff, 'cause Sarajan doesn't seem to want to do that.

Looking forward to your first review.


RE: should I or shouldn't I ? . . . only my priest knows for sure, posted on September 17, 2009 at 11:34:25
chris.redmond2@bushinternet.com
Reviewer

Posts: 10208
Location: Lancashire.
Joined: January 21, 2001
 >Small potatoes, Chris. Doing reviews gratis for a webzine really doesn't constitute "employment" in my view. It's more of a mutual favor.<

You've got it in one Bruce. I never had a cross word with Constantine and despite what's happened would not want to slam him publicly on any other issue. I had issues 'professionally' but they were private, and he has always been cordial and polite during our time together.
This is why I expected everything to remain informal and be granted the kind of courtesy I take for granted among friends and colleagues.
My bad.




"And finally, I have to express some agreement with Spendor Harbeth that your dragging the issue here, in a fairly transparent effort to slam Mr. Soo, is beneath the high standard that we've all come to expect from you."


Again, I respect that totally and I knew from experience that anyone openly airing a gripe would be jumped on an accused of whining; one look on Whiner's Woad demonstrates I'd have been a fool to think otherwise.

If it was just a case of something happening to me which affected nobody else then my correspondence would have remained directed at Constantine via email, and believe me my language has been quite colourful in that exchange.

Besides being a simple head's up to anyone who might find themselves in a similar situation, there are also numerous individuals who I'd been communicating with via my dagogo account who I don't have contact details for, who I was having personal communicatiosn with.

Easy to say that the dagogo account is for business only so it's my own fault, but for instance I tended to use it to contact anyone involved in audio as it was good for publicising the site and getting dagogo known.

I'd also frequently get emails from people who knew people in the industry, and of course it's only human to chat informally about all and sundry with others in the industry.

One example I'll give will hopefully demonstrate why I felt making this little issue public was necessary despite the response I knew it would get.

I received an email out of the blue from someone who had read a post I made on Outside some years ago about my experiences with someone who had a drug problem. They were in a similar situation to me and we ended up in very lengthy discussions, discussing very personal details obviously.

This person was at the end of her tether, had tried every solution to her particular problem she knew, but I knew of a couple more options and also a certain person who could help her; it's a bit cryptic but I'm sure you can understand why.

Well, after a lot of digging about I finally managed to find the contact details of the 'certain person' which this lady was by now desperate for, but when I tried to access my Dagogo account to send her the info.....well, it's on record what happened.

Now I don't have her contact details anywhere, just her emails which I click onto then reply to.

So, when she doesn't get the information I said I was going to send she's going to wonder what's happened, and when she eventually emails me to find out she won't get a message telling her the account is invalid - the email will be opened by a total stranger along with all the preceding correspondence which will be included.

Nothing I can do about it, except maybe post what has happened at the Asylum, attract some comments and hope she notices it as she obviously noticed my posts on Outside some time ago or did some kind of search, but it may just be the case that someone who remembered my posts from then mentioned them to this individual and had my daggog email.

If so, will whoever passed on the info inform her of my new email please which is christopher.redmond at sky.com

Just a little insight then into why the removal of the account unnanounced was more than an inconvenience and wasn't all about me me me.

Cheers for your input anyway Bruce - if I was in your position I've have jumped into the dog-pile too, but not being a Catholic wouldn't have been confessing to Father about it. :0)





Today is a gift - that's why it's called the Present.

Best Regards,
Chris Redmond.
RE: should I or shouldn't I ? . . . only my priest knows for sure, posted on September 18, 2009 at 08:50:46
Bruce from DC
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Posts: 18025
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Contributor
  Since: March 1, 1999
 Yes, I see that it turned out to be a very frustrating situation for you. But I'm afraid the situation with your e-mail account, now that Mr. Soo has done was he has done, is like a motorcycle -- it has no reverse gear.

All the best!


RE: should I or shouldn't I ? . . . only my priest knows for sure, posted on September 18, 2009 at 09:00:12
chris.redmond2@bushinternet.com
Reviewer

Posts: 10208
Location: Lancashire.
Joined: January 21, 2001
 "Yes, I see that it turned out to be a very frustrating situation for you. But I'm afraid the situation with your e-mail account, now that Mr. Soo has done was he has done, is like a motorcycle -- it has no reverse gear."


Agreed, though you can easily reverse a motorcycle manually if you put it in neutral.

If you're going to use analogies you've got to put more thought into it.

How about a motorbike, facing downhill, on an ice-covered road????


Today is a gift - that's why it's called the Present.

Best Regards,
Chris Redmond.
well you certainly can walk a motorcycle backwards, posted on September 18, 2009 at 11:27:05
Bruce from DC
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Posts: 18025
Location: U.S. Capital
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Contributor
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 but I'd very much like to see you ride one in that direction! ;-)


RE: Is it kosha for an editor to close down an email account without informing the user?, posted on September 16, 2009 at 05:57:54
MaxwellP
Audiophile

Posts: 175
Location: upstate new york
Joined: September 19, 2007
 I have been in a similar situation, and, as I had always anticipated, my work e-mail account was closed an hour after my layoff. As a safeguard throughout my tenure at that place of employment, I kept a private hotmail account and forwarded all relevant/wanted e-mails to that hotmail account. That way, the contacts or links you "harvest" during your tenure at a job aren't lost when the proverbial door closes. Kind of an obvious suggestion, but in case you hadn't thought of it, it's a good protocol...Good luck.

6 moons could use a shoot from the hip,, posted on September 16, 2009 at 04:38:47
bjh
Audiophile

Posts: 11876
Location: Toronto, Canada
Joined: November 22, 2003
 no nonsense, low drama type.

... perhaps on their next hire!

:(
Everything matters, don't forget to tweak your placebos!
RE: 6 moons could use a shoot from the hip,, posted on September 16, 2009 at 10:41:13
chris.redmond2@bushinternet.com
Reviewer

Posts: 10208
Location: Lancashire.
Joined: January 21, 2001
 "no nonsense, low drama type."


Hardly a drama, and when I meet Constantine face to face there'll be no nonsense either - you'll probably hear me in Canada.


Today is a gift - that's why it's called the Present.

Best Regards,
Chris Redmond.
think about a planet revolving under the pale lights of multiple ..., posted on September 16, 2009 at 11:27:18
TBone
Audiophile

Posts: 2645
Joined: April 5, 2000
 balloons ... (sigh)

>>Hardly a drama, and when I meet Constantine face to face there'll be no nonsense either - you'll probably hear me in Canada.<<

Only Paul Candy will be listening!

Chris, it's starting to become a bit of a drama, but you knew that potential when you posted it here ... so ... anyway ... MOVE ON ... life is far too short, plus, you have bigger fish to fry at 6balloons, the most cryptic, fragmented, near useless webzine I've ever had the pleasure to ignore.

TB1

RE: think about a planet revolving under the pale lights of multiple ..., posted on September 16, 2009 at 12:59:40
chris.redmond2@bushinternet.com
Reviewer

Posts: 10208
Location: Lancashire.
Joined: January 21, 2001
 "Chris, it's starting to become a bit of a drama, but you knew that potential when you posted it here ... so ... anyway ... MOVE ON ... life is far too short, plus, you have bigger fish to fry at 6balloons, the most cryptic, fragmented, near useless webzine I've ever had the pleasure to ignore".


It ony becomes a drama when the likes of you add to the thread and use it to have a pop at others.

Get a life and MOVE ON yourself. Jeez... :0)





Today is a gift - that's why it's called the Present.

Best Regards,
Chris Redmond.
tiss tiss ..., posted on September 16, 2009 at 13:39:59
TBone
Audiophile

Posts: 2645
Joined: April 5, 2000
 >>It ony becomes a drama when the likes of you add to the thread and use it to have a pop at others.<<

What, me have a "pop", c'mon dude ... who you kiddin'?

Did you actually think posting your little petty personal drama here, that the ONLY results would be supportive threads with "poor ole hard-done-bye chris" supporters and "bad guy Constantine" threads?

You must have known that posting this petty crap here would have invited alternative reactions.

Chris, I figured you had much thicker skin, and in this business, you better develop some tough rawhide.

TB1
RE: tiss tiss ..., posted on September 16, 2009 at 13:55:12
chris.redmond2@bushinternet.com
Reviewer

Posts: 10208
Location: Lancashire.
Joined: January 21, 2001
 "Did you actually think posting your little petty personal drama here, that the ONLY results would be supportive threads with "poor ole hard-done-bye chris" supporters and "bad guy Constantine" threads?"


Of course not, so trying to suggest it means you're way off the mark.


"You must have known that posting this petty crap here would have invited alternative reactions."


Er, yes, but believe it or not my skin is as thick as it comes and probably thicker than yours, so I'm not exactly losing any sleep about it.

So far I've never been banned from any forum despite having many, many altercations, because I don't lose my cool and don't become abusive during threads.

On the other hand, your history is well known which is why I'm laughing now at you accusing me of being thin-skinned!

At the end of the day, this is just an audio forum so I find it amusing when posts on it attract, whining, whinging posts complaining about whining, whinging posts.

Best thing you can do is look back at my long history of posting and see if there's any history of not having a thick skin, and maybe I'll do likewise with you?

Now I'm still smiling after a bit of banter, and hopefully you can cope with it too as I've nothing against anyone having a pop at me, so long as they can take it back.








Today is a gift - that's why it's called the Present.

Best Regards,
Chris Redmond.
be happy ..., posted on September 16, 2009 at 14:25:23
TBone
Audiophile

Posts: 2645
Joined: April 5, 2000
 >>On the other hand, your history is well known which is why I'm laughing now at you accusing me of being thin-skinned!<<

Chris, laugh to your hearts content, it's good therapy, enjoy the moment, that "history" stuff trumps me every time, you win ... geez ... it's a pity my "history" doesn't have me crying aloud at critics corner about personal petty issues handled in a totally unprofessional manner.

TB1

RE: be happy ..., posted on September 16, 2009 at 14:30:46
chris.redmond2@bushinternet.com
Reviewer

Posts: 10208
Location: Lancashire.
Joined: January 21, 2001
 >that "history" stuff trumps me every time<

Yep, people in glass houses and all that.

Have a good day - no hard feelings on my part.

Today is a gift - that's why it's called the Present.

Best Regards,
Chris Redmond.
"6balloons, the most cryptic, fragmented, near useless webzine I've ever had the pleasure to ignore.", posted on September 16, 2009 at 12:41:32
bjh
Audiophile

Posts: 11876
Location: Toronto, Canada
Joined: November 22, 2003
 Well I love the pictures myself!

Also the syndicated reviews, those by Wojciech Pacula and others, are pretty good IMHO. They may seem somewhat normal in comparison to those from the core 6moons writers I suppose but I personally consider that a positive.


Everything matters, don't forget to tweak your placebos!
RE: 6 moons could use a shoot from the hip,, posted on September 16, 2009 at 05:59:33
lord addleford
Audiophile

Posts: 336
Location: new england
Joined: July 5, 2005
Contributor
  Since: April 11, 2006
 yes, indeed. the prose is a affected, flowery. what happened to simple declarative sentences; straight-ahead prose? a judicious blue pencil is would come in handy. in addition, the ads in the middle of the page fragments the text of the review. time for some editorial control.

For what it's worth: discourtesy is rife ..., posted on September 16, 2009 at 01:06:31
Bhasi
Audiophile

Posts: 625
Joined: July 9, 2001
'forgetfulness' too, i.e. not prioritising courtesy enough to bother to maintain it. Clearly standards differ on this, evidenced by some of the comments below.

I sympathise. Put it down to experience. Informal relationships can be more formal than we suspect.

RE: For what it's worth: discourtesy is rife ..., posted on September 16, 2009 at 10:23:32
chris.redmond2@bushinternet.com
Reviewer

Posts: 10208
Location: Lancashire.
Joined: January 21, 2001
 "Clearly standards differ on this, evidenced by some of the comments below."


Yes, it does seem that manners and courtesy aren't exactly held as a priority in some circles. :0)


Today is a gift - that's why it's called the Present.

Best Regards,
Chris Redmond.
RE: Is it kosha for an editor to close down an email account without informing the user?, posted on September 15, 2009 at 19:43:30
Spendor Harbeth
Audiophile

Posts: 601
Location: Left Coast
Joined: May 15, 2009
 What damn Bitch Fest. For Chrisakes. This is your personal business, why are you dragging other people in to your little drama.

What part of "resign" and "no longer affiliated" don't you understand?

I left my company earlier this year on good terms and the next fucking day my phone and email was turned off. Boo Hoo!

RE: Is it kosha for an editor to close down an email account without informing the user?, posted on September 16, 2009 at 10:20:54
chris.redmond2@bushinternet.com
Reviewer

Posts: 10208
Location: Lancashire.
Joined: January 21, 2001
 "This is your personal business, why are you dragging other people in to your little drama."


Exactly who's been dragged into my 'drama'?

Pot, kettle, black.

This forum is for communicating with the industry, and anyone looking at the header of my post knows exactly what it is about; if they're not interested they don't waste time reading it.

Now if I think someone has treated me badly, I tend to meet them face to face and tell them about it, bit in this case I can't.

What I can do is let other reviewers and industry members know what happened to me, and if anyone thinks I have nothing to complain about then fair enough.

If you want throw a little hissy fit after reading my post when the heading told you exactly what the content would be, then you're a strange guy who obviously can't see the hypocricy in his comment.


Today is a gift - that's why it's called the Present.

Best Regards,
Chris Redmond.
RE: Is it kosha for an editor to close down an email account without informing the user?, posted on September 16, 2009 at 13:42:47
Spendor Harbeth
Audiophile

Posts: 601
Location: Left Coast
Joined: May 15, 2009
 Hissy Fit? Did you actually read your posting before hitting the button? Its the mother of all Hissy Fits.

My main point is that your posting is incredibly SELF IMPORTANT. Get over it. Every organization I have ever left willingly or unwillingly cut me off from phone and email access the next freaking DAY.

I don't see where you were wronged. What am I missing here?

Find a bigger problem and don't assume the you every one will cater too you. Assume that every editor you work with will cut you off the next after you resign. Deal.
RE: Is it kosha for an editor to close down an email account without informing the user?, posted on September 16, 2009 at 14:17:58
chris.redmond2@bushinternet.com
Reviewer

Posts: 10208
Location: Lancashire.
Joined: January 21, 2001
 "I don't see where you were wronged. What am I missing here?"


You don't see the wrng because we have different attitudes to dealing with colleagues, in which case nothing has been done wrong in your eyes.

I accept that completely - you need to calm down, I'm not trying to convince you of anything or change you opinion, I've just posted information of what happened, and those who think it was out of order have emailed me saying so, while those who don't have posted to the thread. :0)


"My main point is that your posting is incredibly SELF IMPORTANT."

No, you seeing it as self-important doesn't make it so, but it's an interesting view that's for sure.


"Every organization I have ever left willingly or unwillingly cut me off from phone and email access the next freaking DAY."

I wasn't working for an organisation but you chose to ignore the distinction as you're hell bent on being the hard-nose trying to educate some naive, idealistic, self-important guy about life in the real world.

I'm over it and am only replying to posters like yourself to put you straight when you make assumptions that aren't correct.
You won't like it, but hey-Ho - can't be helped.




Today is a gift - that's why it's called the Present.

Best Regards,
Chris Redmond.
RE: Is it kosha for an editor to close down an email account without informing the user?, posted on September 16, 2009 at 14:26:08
Spendor Harbeth
Audiophile

Posts: 601
Location: Left Coast
Joined: May 15, 2009
 Fair enough. You have responded very intelligently, and I appreciate that.

Obviously there are a few people who agree with me on the fact that we don't think you were mistreated in any real way, but as you said, your view on how business is conduct between associates is different than mine and others here.

For certain you got my point. I have absolutely nothing against you, but I still feel this was a matter between you and your former gig.

When I bitch (and I do)its about a story or item in Sphile or TAS that I feel is spreading bad habits, incorrect information, or just plain irresponsible journalism, I don't personally attack JA, Mikey, or whomever, just their work. They are public figures and they better have thick skins or else.

Peace.

PS. I have had it both ways...been out on my ass with nothing but swift kick, and I have left with very generous packages that would make you blush. You just don't know.

RE: Is it kosha for an editor to close down an email account without informing the user?, posted on September 16, 2009 at 15:03:41
chris.redmond2@bushinternet.com
Reviewer

Posts: 10208
Location: Lancashire.
Joined: January 21, 2001
 "For certain you got my point. I have absolutely nothing against you, but I still feel this was a matter between you and your former gig."


Honestly, I have nothing against anyone who doesn't see what happened 'my way', and I didn't post with the intention of trying to get sympathy or support; I don't ever need others to back me up and believe it or not I'd rather not come across as a whiner.

When I was cutting trees down for a living a few years ago I worked with three broken ribs and never told my colleagues even though I was in agony for weeks, as there was nothing that could be done about it, I couldn't afford to stop work and I didn't want the others doing more than their fair share to carry me when it was hard enough doing a fair share.

Now my reason for posting was not to say 'poor me', as I knew before posting that this would be frowned on and that the responses would most likely be 'so what?'
I've been posting at the Asylum for many years - I know the score. :0)

No, my reason for posting was partly out of frustration because I'm thousands of miles away from Constantine and can't go to vent at him - yet, and partly because I'm sure other reviewers/potential will have noticed this thread and will now be aware of my own experience and what happened previously to another in similar circumstances.

Such individuals might well look at what happened, decide Constantine has nothing to answer for and dismiss me as a whinger which I can handle, not being so self-important that I'd take offence you understand (!)

On the other hand, if any other reviewers decide to leave Dagogo in the future, I'm damn sure they'll have cleared their email accounts in the first couple of weeks. :0)

I'll just repeat then that although I'll give as good as I get, I never bear grudges and enjoy the banter and cut and thrust of the forum, it's all healthy and I'd shake your hand and share a beer with you, TBone and the other guy who's trying to rattle my cage.

If we shared a beer one minute then you were bad-mouthing me via email behind my back however I'd be livid - more so than if you'd poured the beer over my head - and it's my own attitude to what I perceive to being two faced which probably means I'm more aggrieved at Constantine's action than most.



Today is a gift - that's why it's called the Present.

Best Regards,
Chris Redmond.
RE: Is it kosha for an editor to close down an email account without informing the user?, posted on September 16, 2009 at 17:04:19
Spendor Harbeth
Audiophile

Posts: 601
Location: Left Coast
Joined: May 15, 2009
 First, I love beer. The colder the better.

Second, I'm sure in the end you learned the minute you resign from any affiliation, you will clean out your email and download your address book. Been there done that!

(He DID give you two weeks!)

And expect no consideration or kindness once you go. Expect to be treated like crap, and be pleasantly surprised when you are not.

There would be no bad mouthing you behind your back, I posted my opinion on your story with out any hesitation. As you said, you are no naive country bumpkin, and your post was going to draw a lot of heat and accusations of whining.

That being said, good luck at the next gig and I look forward to reading any future reviews.

FYI I'm popping open a Singha right now.

Just one Singha? A likely story........... [nt], posted on September 17, 2009 at 05:26:28
chris.redmond2@bushinternet.com
Reviewer

Posts: 10208
Location: Lancashire.
Joined: January 21, 2001
 nt
Today is a gift - that's why it's called the Present.

Best Regards,
Chris Redmond.
anytime ..., posted on September 16, 2009 at 16:13:21
TBone
Audiophile

Posts: 2645
Joined: April 5, 2000
 >>I never bear grudges and enjoy the banter and cut and thrust of the forum, it's all healthy and I'd shake your hand and share a beer with you, TBone and the other guy who's trying to rattle my cage.<<

Chris, I'd share a pint with you anytime/anywhere ... we can even discuss my "history" here and elsewere, which BTW, takes on a whole new perspective after a few.

Sincerely, good luck at 6moons.

TB1

RE: anytime ..., posted on September 17, 2009 at 05:21:03
chris.redmond2@bushinternet.com
Reviewer

Posts: 10208
Location: Lancashire.
Joined: January 21, 2001
 TBone, my bringing up your history was just a case of touche as I always found your threads highly entertaining - if I caught them before they were deleted of course. :0)


Today is a gift - that's why it's called the Present.

Best Regards,
Chris Redmond.
RE: Is it kosha for an editor to close down an email account without informing the user?, posted on September 16, 2009 at 03:24:38
lord addleford
Audiophile

Posts: 336
Location: new england
Joined: July 5, 2005
Contributor
  Since: April 11, 2006
 first, chris has earned the right to 'bitch, as you call it. he is ongoing serious poster; cut him some slack. lord knows, you have posted some doozies.....as have most of us

second, chris' lament relates to the overall trustworthiness of an audio zine publisher/reviewer. if he can not be trusted in this case, why should he be trusted in re audio reviews? given his presentation, his post is valid.


third, chris'' posts are an honest good faith attempt to secure feedback; he is neither ranting or whining. regardless, as all other threads, it will run out of steam and die a natural death. let it be.

fourth, . you believe his post is mere personal bitching and is not worthy of posting. the best response is no response. a little bit of restraint goes a long way.

RE: Is it kosha for an editor to close down an email account without informing the user?, posted on September 16, 2009 at 07:18:17
Spendor Harbeth
Audiophile

Posts: 601
Location: Left Coast
Joined: May 15, 2009
 He IS a legit poster, that is why I am disappointed he wants to post not about an interesting audiophile topic, but about a little cat fight that I could not care less about it.

You lost me here, but if a publisher cuts off his email after TWO weeks of no longer being affiliated with the publication, how does that make him not trust worthy? Again, what part of NO LONGER affiliated does he not understand.

This is alot of WHINE and CHEESE. Sorry, you are wrong on this one.

Lastly, yes we all have posted bitchfests, but they are public topics, or discussions about items that appear in the public domain, not about little private tiffs.

RE: Is it kosha for an editor to close down an email account without informing the user?, posted on September 16, 2009 at 09:34:11
lord addleford
Audiophile

Posts: 336
Location: new england
Joined: July 5, 2005
Contributor
  Since: April 11, 2006
 wrong, moi lololol
i guess, the point is a private employment issue being brought to a public forum. point taken.

i guess, for me, his long term upfront legitimacy as a poster, in the context of a question -albeit a 'private' one - that perplexed him. was worthy of a response; akin go to helping a 'friend' to sort out a concern.

i still hold to rga's response being tainted by association to the 'zine.

yes, enough.

later,
la

I agree with you, posted on September 16, 2009 at 08:40:21
morricab
Dealer

Posts: 4457
Location: switzerland
Joined: April 1, 2005
 He should have kept his private issues off the forum. I can't even imagine wanting to air them here. Nevermind the fact that he seems pretty offbase with his complaint and especially the degree to which he escalated it.

RE: I agree with you, posted on September 16, 2009 at 11:02:21
chris.redmond2@bushinternet.com
Reviewer

Posts: 10208
Location: Lancashire.
Joined: January 21, 2001
 "He should have kept his private issues off the forum. I can't even imagine wanting to air them here. Nevermind the fact that he seems pretty offbase with his complaint and especially the degree to which he escalated it."


Well, I've had emails from guys who are very grateful I've aired this publically rather than keep it to myself, but of course I understand your viewpoint entirely.

I posted my grievance without exagerating any aspect, and without telling falsehoods, and I anticipated that most would regard it as whining with nothing to substantiate what I believed has happened.

It the greater scheme of things it's trivia and hardly the crime of the century but at least it is now down on record for anyone who may have associations with Constantine in the future.
What I can't stand is people who are two-faced, and I'd have far more respect for someone who'd have said to me "in my opinion, you broke a pledge to work for me indefinitely, now clear your email account because I'm shutting it down in an hour".

No problem with that at all - I'd have called him a few choice names, told him to stick his email account where the sun don't shine and then cleared the account sharpish.

Nothing would have appeared on this forum, that's for sure.


Today is a gift - that's why it's called the Present.

Best Regards,
Chris Redmond.
RE: Is it kosha for an editor to close down an email account without informing the user?, posted on September 15, 2009 at 19:17:22
lord addleford
Audiophile

Posts: 336
Location: new england
Joined: July 5, 2005
Contributor
  Since: April 11, 2006
 1. first, on a lighter note: "kosha" is spelled kosher; and regardless of spelling constantine soo would not be guided by the laws of kashruth, though he should have followed some far more commonsensicle standard

2. prior notice, whether in writing or provided orally is just plain good commonsense. both employer and employee should be clear about their rights, duties and obligation. relying on the "good will" standard assumes that both parties will operate from that position and hence, treat each other fairly, honestly and without violating common sense standards of conduct. seems that mr. soo, based on your information, operates his zine from a unilateral power position: he is the king; and as mel brooks once said "it's good to be the king; unfortunately, you were one of his subjects and were thusly treated regardless of whether you made mistakes with the account, you should have received a simple oral or written notice re the email closing.

3. rga's analyis and opinion is fatally tainted by his relationship to mr.soo and the zine. he is in no position to offer a fair and unbiased opinion and it should be dismissed out of hand.

la

"........a 'pledge to write for him indefinitely'....", posted on September 15, 2009 at 16:20:00
powermatic
Audiophile

Posts: 5600
Location: central oregon
Joined: November 24, 2005
Contributor
  Since: March 1, 2008
 Apparently Abe Lincoln still has some work to do.




"dammit"
When I started writing for Dagogo..., posted on September 15, 2009 at 13:01:25
RGA
Reviewer

Posts: 6145
Joined: August 8, 2001
 Constantine gave me two e-mail addresses one for Dagogo and one from Yahoo. He told me to conduct all audio related communication in the Dagogo account.

I highly doubt that Constantine would do anything to deliberately screw you over. He left your account open for 2 weeks which is hardly a sign of deliberate intent to delete your account because if it was deliberate then it would have been deleted as soon as you phone call or resignation was signed.

At worst the only thing you could blame him for was "forgetting" to tell you that your account was going to be deleted. On the other hand if he had heard nothing from you for 2 weeks and since it was "supposed" to be "only" for audio related conversations such as "I received your amplifier thanks" and "the review is finished please send Purolator/UPS/Fed Ex etc to "pick it up." I don't think Constantine would expect people to put extremely critical tax documents on his business e-mail service. Most people have an independent e-mail account before becoming a reviewer and I think most people use that for any personal information. The Yahoo service is so poor that I would not trust anything to be saved anyway.

Lastly I think your frustration over the loss of documents is more of the culprit and blaming Constantine for what is not really his responsibility. You elected to use that e-mail address for inappropriate use and tax documents, at least in Canada, can all be provided again. You phone the places you worked and you get a second copy. It's a royal pain but you should be able to get those documents.

Again the only thing I can see here is that Constantine forgot or didn't think to tell you that your account would close. If you didn't have important documents in the account I bet this thread never gets started.

By the way - Congrats on your new reviewing position 6Moons

RE: When I started writing for Dagogo..., posted on September 15, 2009 at 14:45:59
chris.redmond2@bushinternet.com
Reviewer

Posts: 10208
Location: Lancashire.
Joined: January 21, 2001
 The whole relationship with dagogo was very informal with no contracts, and no strict "business only" orders about the dagogo email account.

Of course I only used the account for procuring reviews and corresponding with industry for the first few months, then eventually other correspondence creeps in which shouldn't be an issue, and was never an issue until the account was closed without my knowledge.

Now of course, the only aspect of this I can have any complaints about whatsoever is that I didn't receive the courtesy of an email letting me know.

It all comes down to that, and if I had been told, nothing else would have mattered.

Now you can't imagine anything other than Constantine perhaps forgetting to let me know/ neglecting to tell me, which he could in all fairness claim, but he didn't claim this.

He basically told me it was two weeks since I sent my email letting him know I was resigning, and he was entitled to close the account.

If we'd parted on bad termss then fair enough, I couldn't complain, but he gave the impression we didn't which is the whole point.

When he then let me know that in his opinion I had 'broken a pledge to work for him indefinitely", ask yourself again if you think he could only have forgotten to let me know the account was to be closed.

Bear in mind that one of the first Dagogo reviewers resigned on apparently good terms with Constantine, then Constantine emailed the remaining reviewers bad mouthing that reviewer to such a degree that another reviewer resigned in disgust and I among others considered joining him.

I bring this up not to throw mud, but to demonstrate that Constantine takes it personally when anyone leaves Dagogo and bears a grudge, as this has to be considered when suggesting he might have innocently forgotten to let me know of the closing of the account.

As it is, every email sent to that address will now be opened and read by Constantine - he's told me this himself as apparently he has to open the mail to know who it was sent to.

If you believe this was an innocent mistake on Constantine's part then there's no objective evidence to the contrary to prove otherwise, I just know from his attitude and reactions that this is not so.

I've fallen out and argued with many, many individuals over the years on the Asylum especially but have never, ever born a grudge and have the utmost respect for virtually everyone I've locked horns with, but I recognise exactly Constantine's character as I've encountered it many times in other walks of life.





Today is a gift - that's why it's called the Present.

Best Regards,
Chris Redmond.
RE: When I started writing for Dagogo..., posted on September 15, 2009 at 15:43:29
RGA
Reviewer

Posts: 6145
Joined: August 8, 2001
 Chris I was not there and know nothing about this reviewer of whom you speak. But my question

"Bear in mind that one of the first Dagogo reviewers resigned on apparently good terms with Constantine, then Constantine emailed the remaining reviewers bad mouthing that reviewer to such a degree that another reviewer resigned in disgust and I among others considered joining him.

I bring this up not to throw mud, but to demonstrate that Constantine takes it personally when anyone leaves Dagogo and bears a grudge, as this has to be considered when suggesting he might have innocently forgotten to let me know of the closing of the account."

If this is how you felt about Constantine and you knew this is how he would react then why would you not have forwarded all the important e-mails to another account prior to resigning?

RE: When I started writing for Dagogo..., posted on September 15, 2009 at 16:15:51
chris.redmond2@bushinternet.com
Reviewer

Posts: 10208
Location: Lancashire.
Joined: January 21, 2001
 "If this is how you felt about Constantine and you knew this is how he would react then why would you not have forwarded all the important e-mails to another account prior to resigning?"


But I didn't feel that way about Constantine and had never had a cross word with him in all my time with Dagogo.

To be honest I never knew the background to that resignation until much later, though at the time I thought Constantine was way out of order and so did many other reviewers.

Now if it was the case that there was cause for me to fall out with Constantine before I moved on, I would have sorted the email account out, but I didn't wish to have any bad blood and so didn't raise the actual subject of why I was moving.

At the end of the day I was going so why raise the issue?

So, as I've already said, Constantine thanked my for my contributions and I thanked him and wished him well. If the account was to be closed within two weeks, a simple head's up was all that was needed, and until Constantine let me know that there was some bad blood I was none the wiser.

That's when I thought back to the earlier resignation and it dawned on me that Constantine's reaction to that was not isolated.








Today is a gift - that's why it's called the Present.

Best Regards,
Chris Redmond.
RE: Is it kosha for an editor to close down an email account without informing the user?, posted on September 15, 2009 at 08:06:33
Gerry E.
Audiophile

Posts: 1656
Location: Hartford, Connect-I-Cut
Joined: February 19, 2000
Contributor
  Since: March 2, 2004
 "...contacts, emails and the numerous Paypal receipts I had with the dagogo account..."

Hey Chris - I fully agree with your position on this with one exception. I'm not sure I would have used that Dagogo account for anything but business related to Dagogo.

I'm not saying that I never sent or received a personal e-mail at work using my company e-mail account. However, I knew I was taking a risk in that any in-going or out-going e-mails could be viewed by company personnel.

One person I worked with actually got fired for something he wrote in a personal e-mail and a company official accidently came across it. Of course this story is a little bit off-topic, but it speaks to the risks associated with some types of e-mail accounts.

Gerry

RE: Is it kosha for an editor to close down an email account without informing the user?, posted on September 15, 2009 at 09:00:58
chris.redmond2@bushinternet.com
Reviewer

Posts: 10208
Location: Lancashire.
Joined: January 21, 2001
 "However, I knew I was taking a risk in that any in-going or out-going e-mails could be viewed by company personnel."

I could actually do with confirmation that Constantine was able to view emails from my credmond@dagogo.com address.

Does anyone know if this is so?


Today is a gift - that's why it's called the Present.

Best Regards,
Chris Redmond.
The person who maintains dagogo.com email most certainly can see it..., posted on September 15, 2009 at 09:26:09
David S.
Audiophile

Posts: 1743
Location: Mountains of WNC
Joined: August 31, 2000
 Whether that person is Constantine or not, I sure don't know. As a former MIS manager, I had access to all incoming & outgoing emails for our company.

Also, our policy was to lock an email account the moment a person was no longer with the company (whether on good or bad terms) - no 2 week grace period.
RE: The person who maintains dagogo.com email most certainly can see it..., posted on September 15, 2009 at 09:35:43
chris.redmond2@bushinternet.com
Reviewer

Posts: 10208
Location: Lancashire.
Joined: January 21, 2001
 "As a former MIS manager, I had access to all incoming & outgoing emails for our company."

But was that from the company's own computers?


"Also, our policy was to lock an email account the moment a person was no longer with the company (whether on good or bad terms) - no 2 week grace period."

Perfectly understandable for a company to do this and I'd imagine there was a 'company policy' in writing for any employees.

I was never paid for reviewing, was never really an 'employee' and submitted reviews on a casual basis because I enjoyed reviewing when I had time.



Today is a gift - that's why it's called the Present.

Best Regards,
Chris Redmond.
RE: The person who maintains dagogo.com email most certainly can see it..., posted on September 16, 2009 at 08:46:45
morricab
Dealer

Posts: 4457
Location: switzerland
Joined: April 1, 2005
 However; to Mr. Soo it is a business and it is his company...if it were my magazine there would be no grace period.

RE: The person who maintains dagogo.com email most certainly can see it..., posted on September 16, 2009 at 10:28:20
chris.redmond2@bushinternet.com
Reviewer

Posts: 10208
Location: Lancashire.
Joined: January 21, 2001
 "However; to Mr. Soo it is a business and it is his company...if it were my magazine there would be no grace period."


So you wouldn't even let a guy who worked for you for two years, unpaid, know his email was being closed down?

If the answer is 'yes' then I've no time for you.


Today is a gift - that's why it's called the Present.

Best Regards,
Chris Redmond.
RE: Well..., posted on September 15, 2009 at 06:14:43
theaudiohobby
Audiophile

Posts: 4438
Joined: January 16, 2003
 you answered the question yourself in the last paragraph, closing the account is perfectly normal, arguably he should have informed you of the resignation formalities as a courtesy, But it's standard practice to shutdown email accounts after the employee leaves, 'voluntary' or otherwise. By the way, in the corporate world many folks do not get the opportunity to 'clear' their desks.




Music making the painting, recording it the photograph
RE: Well..., posted on September 15, 2009 at 07:39:28
chris.redmond2@bushinternet.com
Reviewer

Posts: 10208
Location: Lancashire.
Joined: January 21, 2001
 "arguably he should have informed you of the resignation formalities as a courtesy".

He didn't need to and was perfectly within his rights to close the account, no argument on that score, and no argument whether he 'should' have informed me first as a courtesy.

I just don't know any decent person who would have closed the account unannounced as he did, even to someone who had left on bad terms.


"By the way, in the corporate world many folks do not get the opportunity to 'clear' their desks."

We're not talking abou the corporate world here though - I wished Constantine well, he wished me well and I thought all was good until discovering that in Constantine's view I'd broken a pledge.
Today is a gift - that's why it's called the Present.

Best Regards,
Chris Redmond.
RE: Well..., posted on September 15, 2009 at 08:12:59
rick_m
Audiophile

Posts: 2538
Location: Oregon
Joined: August 11, 2005
 While it's unfortunate that you didn't get around to gathering up stuff you wanted to keep, I'd say that you weren't particularly 'wronged'. Email is just a tool like a company vehicle or workspace is predicated upon still being part of the company.

Unfortunately, as TAH said, treating former employees like criminals is becoming more common over here, remember we aren't very civilized. However in this case I suspect that it was just routine, if there were real malice behind it two weeks wouldn't have been the window, two microseconds would have been more like it.

Regards, Rick
RE: Well..., posted on September 15, 2009 at 08:58:32
chris.redmond2@bushinternet.com
Reviewer

Posts: 10208
Location: Lancashire.
Joined: January 21, 2001
 "Unfortunately, as TAH said, treating former employees like criminals is becoming more common over here, remember we aren't very civilized."


Obviously not.

Today is a gift - that's why it's called the Present.

Best Regards,
Chris Redmond.

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