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Lets Start A Favorite MM Cart Thread....Inspired By Opus

67.61.219.136
Posted on June 11, 2011 at 10:15:48
AudioSoul
Audiophile

Posts: 2960
Location: north central AZ
Joined: July 9, 2005
Mine is a old Signet TK7E. I switch between a eliptical stylus and fineline stylus. I haven't heard most of the MM out there. So I was wonderin what else is out there. New or old doesn't matter......

 

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RE: Lets Start A Favorite MM Cart Thread....Inspired By Opus, posted on June 15, 2011 at 01:00:38
neobop
Audiophile

Posts: 228
Joined: September 10, 2010













0.3mV vs 0.2mV
beryllium is still used in tweeters.
BIRD LIVES

 

RE: Lets Start A Favorite MM Cart Thread....Inspired By Opus, posted on June 16, 2011 at 03:59:47
david 62


 
I'm very pleased with my TK7E with a replacement stylus on my TD-145.I see no reason to upgrade to another MM.
Dave

 

RE: Lets Start A Favorite MM Cart Thread....Inspired By Opus, posted on June 14, 2011 at 12:51:41
rindolini
Audiophile

Posts: 290
Location: Munich
Joined: August 9, 2007
 I really like the Audio Technica's AT120/AT102P family (AT rather uses "AT100", but I find that somewhat misleading, as the AT103 wasn't really a common model, and the AT105/110E/115E are pretty different anyway...) for the very wide choice of different needles (and to a lesser degree also bodies). Granted, some models tend to be somewhat on the bright side, especially if load capacity is too high - so these are a bit hard to tame. But otherwise it's a good cart family, in/for which one usually got pretty sophisticated and well-made needles for the price - my favs: the ATN130E/132EP, the ATN150E and the ATN155LC/152LP.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

 

Grace level II, posted on June 13, 2011 at 20:58:30
tannat
Audiophile

Posts: 48
Location: So Sweden
Joined: August 22, 2010
 Next generation after F9 and F8. I'm the first owner and I still use it. Re-tipped it a few years back. It's the main reason I never stopped using Vinyl as main source.
/Jonas

 

Grace F9E, Audio Technica AT-ML170/nt, posted on June 13, 2011 at 20:57:56
audio_d
Audiophile

Posts: 90
Joined: March 2, 2008
 nt

 

Grado "The Statement"(MI), Robert H. Levi's Positive Feedback review nails it...., posted on June 12, 2011 at 22:30:17
darkmoebius
Audiophile

Posts: 18768
Location: Los Angeles, California
Joined: December 28, 2000
 Too bad "The Powers That Be" won't review this cartridge, it is so different, and so beyond anything else in the Grado stable that people should hear more about it.
With ground breaking lifelike imaging, state of the art precision and grainlessness, and flawless tracking at only 1.6 grams, the truly outstanding and unique Statement1 is a Grado cartridge like no other that has come before. Wound with seven feet of pure gold wire, sporting a boron cantilever, and custom ellipsoid diamond, the Australian Jarrah wood bodied Statement1 has shocked and awed every audiophile that has visited my number one reference system. With an extraordinary musical "projection" accompanying the photographic-like musical images, I hear a kind of reality and verisimilitude I've never heard in my 45 years of LP listening from any phono cartridge by any maker.

This isn't just reconstituted master tape sound like some makes claim. The Statement 1 produces a dynamic energy within the imaging that creates musical space in both the front and back of the instrumental image on quality LPs. It starts out as a vividness that's really quite nice as the cartridge breaks in. Then the magic happens at about 50 hours. Any sense of grain vanishes and you hear this expansion of the sound field accompanied by extraordinary definition. You are drawn into the music with an emotional connection rarely heard in any other medium other than really great LP...

I am overwhelmed by the Decca-like dynamics, the Dynavector-like delicacy and purity, the ZYX-like speed, snap, and tracking ability, and the Koetsu-like textural layering. It all adds up to something new and thrilling for phono playback.

 

Ortofon OM30 (nt), posted on June 12, 2011 at 20:42:50
Jagdeep
Audiophile

Posts: 701
Location: Asia
Joined: December 3, 2004
 ..

 

Technics EPC-P100CMk4, posted on June 12, 2011 at 18:11:43
Shane from AUS
Audiophile

Posts: 1646
Location: Sydney
Joined: December 26, 2000
 very nice MM to say the least

 

I'll second that cart choice..., posted on June 13, 2011 at 05:12:19
travisty
Audiophile

Posts: 1331
Location: Tokyo
Joined: April 2, 2003
 The earlier models are also good - they just keep getting ever so slightly finer as the generations go on. That said, the early ones are good, as long as they are operable.

 

Wow. Very nice system, including that assortment of cartridges. nt, posted on June 12, 2011 at 18:44:52
Rick W
Audiophile

Posts: 8053
Location: NJ
Joined: October 3, 2001
 nt

 

Sonus gold/Blue, posted on June 12, 2011 at 16:58:06
Mike27
Audiophile

Posts: 255
Joined: October 31, 2006
 HifiTommy "elliptically" (sorry) mentioned Sonus... not strictly MM but MI (moving iron.) These were among the first line contact styli. The MI design inherently has slightly less moving mass than MM; this in combination with a short cantilever helped push the resonance Elison mentions above 20 kHz and it was left relatively undamped. They tracked quite well and weren't super-critical about VTA. Also the coils were relatively low impedance compared to the usual MM, making preamp and cable matching less critical.

The result was not a "warm" cartridge by any means, but instead "detailed" and very open sounding while avoiding the shrillness of some early MC designs (can you say Blue Point?) I wish someone would make replacement styli. I'd buy several for the bodies I still have!

 

Clearaudio Maestro Wood*, posted on June 12, 2011 at 14:54:54
triode
Audiophile

Posts: 399
Location: south Florida
Joined: January 18, 2001
 *
"Your liver suffers dearly now for youthful magic moments...so rock on completely with some brand new components"

 

Ortofon 2M Black, posted on June 12, 2011 at 15:53:24
SteveFord
Audiophile

Posts: 250
Location: Pennsylvania
Joined: October 15, 2004
 I went with an Ortofon 2M Black on my Well Tempered Classic and couldn't be happier with the sound.

 

Decca Super Gold (nt), posted on June 12, 2011 at 11:50:45
FrankHertz
Audiophile

Posts: 145
Joined: January 28, 2004
 nt

 

Shure V15VxMR and Audio Technica ATML-170, so far... nt, posted on June 12, 2011 at 10:48:02
JimL
Audiophile

Posts: 3688
Location: New Mexico
Joined: November 24, 2002
 .

 

Grace F9E and Ortofon OM20 Super, posted on June 12, 2011 at 09:10:51
Stale
Audiophile

Posts: 2555
Location: Illinois
Joined: August 3, 2001
Contributor
  Since: April 12, 2006
 I could live with those. I did not try any decent new MM cartridge for a few years now, but no MM cartridges I ever tried provided what MC cartridges do. But decent phono pre that handles MC-s is required. But today that is not a big problem.

I have unopened Clearaudio Virtuoso Wood and I do not even want to try it.

 

AT20SLa with back-up ADC ZLM Improved..., posted on June 12, 2011 at 08:53:37
Ryan T
Audiophile

Posts: 988
Location: Winnipeg
Joined: April 17, 2002



I am currently using an Audio Technica AT20SLa Limited Edition. The sound reproduction is detailed, clear and quiet with a dynamic soundstage.

Back-up: The super cartridge, ADC ZLM Improved Nude Alliptic diamond tip which has a slight edge over the AT in the area of bass, detail and soundstage. Otherwise, I have no complaints.

 

I'll second the ADC ZLM Improved..., posted on June 12, 2011 at 10:08:00
Wilson
Audiophile

Posts: 268
Joined: May 24, 2001
Contributor
  Since: June 9, 2001
 In my experience, it's much more refined than the XLM Mk II without giving up the other good qualities.

I keep switching between the ZLM and a Grace F9E Ruby, usually settling with the Grace, but there is something very musical about the ADC.

 

Mini-stock pile of XLMs..., posted on June 12, 2011 at 18:17:04
Ryan T
Audiophile

Posts: 988
Location: Winnipeg
Joined: April 17, 2002




Plus I hoarded a couple of XLM Mk2s and Mk3 and a not too common, Super XLM Mk? which is similar to the ZLM.

 

Goldring GL2500, Shure V15MRJicoSAS, posted on June 12, 2011 at 07:00:14
macster
Audiophile

Posts: 585
Joined: March 31, 2000
 In my system the GL2500 is IMHO the best that I've heard. @ it's price it's a steal.

M~

 

Shure V15 VMR with SAS stylus. (nt), posted on June 12, 2011 at 03:59:01
esande
Audiophile

Posts: 1602
Location: Washington, DC
Joined: December 27, 2008
Contributor
  Since: January 15, 2010

 

ADC XLM II, XLM II Improved, XLM III and Grace F9E Ruby...nt, posted on June 12, 2011 at 03:37:50
EdAInWestOC
Audiophile

Posts: 5071
Location: Linthicum Heights, MD USA
Joined: December 18, 2003
 nt

We don't shush around here!
Life is analog...digital is just samples thereof

 

RE: ADC XLM II, XLM II Improved, XLM III and Grace F9E Ruby...nt, posted on June 12, 2011 at 10:18:33
c1ferrari
Audiophile

Posts: 260
Location: Southern California
Joined: March 16, 2001
 +1
Wasn't there an ADC XLM, as well?
Vbr,
Sam

 

Yeah..., posted on June 12, 2011 at 17:30:25
EdAInWestOC
Audiophile

Posts: 5071
Location: Linthicum Heights, MD USA
Joined: December 18, 2003
 When I bought my first XLM II it was pretty new and the buz was that the II would track better and was more reliable than the original.

I never owned the original but the II, II Improved and XLM III were all great cartridges. The Grace speaks for itself.

Ed

We don't shush around here!
Life is analog...digital is just samples thereof

 

Yes, with weird flat pins on the back and ridiculous compliance., posted on June 12, 2011 at 11:26:03
Opus 104
Audiophile

Posts: 9337
Location: Northern Virginia
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Contributor
  Since: July 20, 2008
 It didn't last long before the MKII came out. The MKI was infamous for collapsed suspensions.






Opus 104

 

RE: Yes, with weird flat pins on the back and ridiculous compliance., posted on June 12, 2011 at 13:02:00
c1ferrari
Audiophile

Posts: 260
Location: Southern California
Joined: March 16, 2001
 Yes, I recall that suspension behavior; however, personally, the sound/music was worth it :-)
Vbr,
Sam

 

I like my Clearaudio Maestro [nt], posted on June 11, 2011 at 22:13:01
Amphissa
Audiophile

Posts: 1780
Location: Zardoz
Joined: March 9, 2004
 .

"Life without music is a mistake" (Nietzsche)

 

RE: Lets Start A Favorite MM Cart Thread....Inspired By Opus, posted on June 11, 2011 at 19:18:07
jb0194
Audiophile

Posts: 369
Joined: January 16, 2003



For me, it's very table/arm/phono stage specific. My current setup includes a modified Bottlehead Eros and the Ortofon VMS-30MKII sounds best, especially on the Victor UA-7082 arm. FWIW, the Clearaudio Maestro in the picture is just as nice, but much costlier. For what I re-sold it for I bought three unused VMS-30 styli and a second body.

 

Shure V-15VxMR/Jico Combo, posted on June 11, 2011 at 17:46:21
kavakidd
Audiophile

Posts: 18598
Location: Upstate NY
Joined: April 15, 2004
Contributor
  Since: April 21, 2004
 SAS - Excellent!
"Man is the only animal that blushes - or needs to" Mark Twain

 

Shure M91E, posted on June 11, 2011 at 17:27:08
dadbar
Audiophile

Posts: 1375
Location: 02453
Joined: June 29, 2003
Contributor
  Since: March 25, 2006
 A real workhorse. It survived my childhood and my children's childhood...and so on. Still being used....better than ever with the new Jico styli. Not too many products can do that.

 

Adikt & K9..., posted on June 11, 2011 at 17:15:10
kuma
Audiophile

Posts: 7017
Joined: July 8, 2001

 

RE: Adikt & K9..., posted on June 12, 2011 at 18:27:28
Ryan T
Audiophile

Posts: 988
Location: Winnipeg
Joined: April 17, 2002
 This is the first time, I have seen an Linn Adikt cart. Impressive. Understated British industrial design.

 

I agree, the Signet TK7e ..., posted on June 11, 2011 at 15:56:42
reelsmith.
Audiophile

Posts: 7065
Location: CT
Joined: June 7, 2005
Contributor
  Since: January 19, 2010
 I wish I could find another at a decent price.

Dean.


reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.


 

RE: Lets Start A Favorite MM Cart Thread....Inspired By Opus, posted on June 11, 2011 at 15:49:45
neobop
Audiophile

Posts: 228
Joined: September 10, 2010
 Hard to choose just 1 or 2. The AT-15/20SS is a wonderful cart. At 47K it sings like music. On the other hand a Stanton 980LZ is rather amazing. If you have a quiet MC stage you can hear the difference between a MM and a MC. The Ortofon M20FL Super is another fun cart. At 47K it is back of the hall with big dramatic bass and a crystal clear top end. If you prefer 3rd row just change the load to 53K. The Clearaudio line is another fav. My Virtuoso w/various AT styli is a natural sounding hi res machine. All the CA carts share the same generator. AT is the OEM. Learn to do a stylus transplant or send a cheaper one to Soundsmith and be amazed.

MM vs MC isn't an either or proposition. Who cares if some jerk says one is better than the other? Things can be appreciated for what they are and the enjoyment you get out of them. Debating something like this is like pissing in the wind.
neo
BIRD LIVES

 

Shure M97xE with Jico/SAS /nt, posted on June 11, 2011 at 14:27:37
Biff
Audiophile

Posts: 6710
Location: Portland, Oregon
Joined: January 27, 2002

 

Like that a lot too (nt), posted on June 13, 2011 at 10:04:55
rebop
 nt

 

Here's an odd one - Stanton Epoch HZ9S, posted on June 11, 2011 at 14:23:09
Ewalaa
Audiophile

Posts: 406
Joined: December 10, 2000

A low output MM. Beautiful midrange.

E.

Photo from the Vinyl Engine, Thanks.

 

Decca FFSS MkIV C4E, posted on June 11, 2011 at 13:47:39
topoxforddoc
Audiophile

Posts: 117
Location: Cheltenham, UK
Joined: March 5, 2005
 Just a stinkingly good cartridge. This piece of old 60s bakelite is astonishing. Mine was rebuilt by John Wright (who builds all the current London carts and designed the Jubilee & Reference). This is better than my original Garrott Brothers Decca Gold and better methinks than my Allaerts MC1B!

Charlie

 

at the hi fi show, , posted on June 11, 2011 at 14:26:05
beach cruiser
Audiophile

Posts: 3336
Location: so cal
Joined: September 24, 2003
 I found two exhibitors running Decca carts. I went there last week end, to gain a little knowledge, have a little fun. Buy a crappy audiophile album for double money, that kind of stuff.

I think the Decca must be the ultimate design. Too exotic for my needs, but it would be kind of cool to have the best.

I wonder how you came to make the call to get a cart like that, or if it is no big deal with your kind of system.

 

Ortofon 2M Black, Grace F9L, ADC XLM..., posted on June 11, 2011 at 13:32:52
manfred88
 These are my favorites, but I also like the Shure's with the Jico SAS stylus. But I won't give up my low output MC's.

 

But but but.... why ?, posted on June 11, 2011 at 13:31:37
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 19541
Location: USA
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Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
 When I got into vinyl only a couple years ago, everyone told me that MC cartridges would produce the best results. I was under the impression that MM's were for beginners.... not unlike training wheels. ;-)

I sold my only MM cartridge and have gone exclusively MC. Is there something worth investigating in MM that I might be missing in a good MC cartridge?

 

Interesting comment from Graham Slee..., posted on June 12, 2011 at 13:44:40
rebop
 I found this comment from Graham Slee on his discussion board set up for his DIY Genera kit interesting, if short on details:

"Eight or nine years ago when we first started getting dealers and distributors interested I was told to cool it regarding my enthusiasm for MM... I'll let you fill in the blanks."

 

I'm surprised no one has posted this link yet., posted on June 12, 2011 at 01:39:38
jusbe
Audiophile

Posts: 3483
Location: Auckland
Joined: April 4, 2000
 So here it is:

What cartridge, what exotic audiophile wonder of disc playback, was producing these marvels? What cartridge could have the "lowest distortion of all," "uncanny" resolution, better than master tapes?



big j.

"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."


 

Yep, I bought my ATML 170 after reading that, and I'm sure glad I got one while they were still available. nt , posted on June 12, 2011 at 08:37:03
Rick W
Audiophile

Posts: 8053
Location: NJ
Joined: October 3, 2001
 nt

 

Is it any good?, posted on June 12, 2011 at 16:35:31
jusbe
Audiophile

Posts: 3483
Location: Auckland
Joined: April 4, 2000
 Never seen one, let alone heard one.


big j.

"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."


 

Yep. , posted on June 12, 2011 at 17:37:24
Rick W
Audiophile

Posts: 8053
Location: NJ
Joined: October 3, 2001
 IMO its a very good cartridge. Realistic timbre, detail without bleach/etch, fairly nuanced bass, and hf without unnatural exaggeration.

Its a shame AT doesn't "re-issue" the ML170.

 

RE: Yep. , posted on June 13, 2011 at 18:14:52
griffithds


 
I tried to get one of the AT ML170's from a supplier in Japan several years ago and was told that the 170 used some exotic compound that was not safe for the cartridge builders and was therefor banned by the government.

 

It was boron for the cantilever, which AT now uses again for some other carts. nt, posted on June 14, 2011 at 09:19:49
Rick W
Audiophile

Posts: 8053
Location: NJ
Joined: October 3, 2001
 nt

 

RE: It was boron for the cantilever, which AT now uses again for some other carts. nt, posted on June 14, 2011 at 09:43:58
John Elison
Audiophile

Posts: 14906
Location: Central Kentucky
Joined: December 20, 2000
Contributor
  Since: January 29, 2004
 AT used to use beryllium. I think it was banned for some reason. I believe Shure used it, too. When it was banned, they gave up producing the V15VxMR. I think that was the reason. I could be wrong.

Best regards,
John Elison

 

RE: beryllium..., posted on June 14, 2011 at 12:18:37
rindolini
Audiophile

Posts: 290
Location: Munich
Joined: August 9, 2007
 Yup, beryllium can be quite toxic: Inhaling of particles not recommended! But that's more a problem during manufacturing rather than being a real threat for the user.

Suitability for cantilevers otherwise is about as good as with boron: Beryllium is even lighter, but on the other hand also a tad less rigid - and iirc speed of sound is still a bit higher in boron. However, the main problem with beryllium is the enourmous price - if you check for beryllium foil in comparision to for example gold foil, you'll see what I mean... Hence I could imagine that the main reason for replacing beryllium with boron cantilevers rather was a financial one, with toxicity being just an excuse - 'cause if the usage really was forbidden, Focal/JMlab nowadays shouldn't be able to offer their beryllium tweeters either.

And just to name a few more manufacturers with beryllium cantilevers on some of their carts: Dynavector, Yamaha, JVC, Pioneer, ADC, B&O... uhm... and probably some more I already forgot. ;) As most sophisticated exemplar ever I'd probably nominate the diamond coated, tapered tubular exemplar as used for example on the Yamaha MC1000 - and I think the Accuphase AC3 sports a funky combination of a beryllium rod within a boron tube...

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

P.S.: I used to have a Yamaha MC505 back in the day - with tubular, tapered beryllium cantilever. A nice little cart. And I still use two types of AT needles with straight beryllium cantilevers on my AT120 and AT102P family bodies - the ATN150E with nice, sharp elliptical and the ATN152LP with LinearContact tip (both rectangular/square shank nudies).


 

RE: Yep. , posted on June 12, 2011 at 20:42:10
John Elison
Audiophile

Posts: 14906
Location: Central Kentucky
Joined: December 20, 2000
Contributor
  Since: January 29, 2004
 What's the difference between the 170 and the AT-150MLX, which is currently being offered by LP Gear?

 

Haven't heard the 150mlx, but......., posted on June 12, 2011 at 21:17:01
Rick W
Audiophile

Posts: 8053
Location: NJ
Joined: October 3, 2001
 the ML150 sucked compared to my170. It was bright/etched/harsh. The 150mlx looks quite different from the ML170, and also different from the ML150 that sucked. Dunno, maybe the mlx version of the 150 is an improvement.

Click on the link below, then scroll down to the bottom and you'll see a pic of the ML170 and it's specs.

 

Thanks! /nt\, posted on June 12, 2011 at 21:21:35
John Elison
Audiophile

Posts: 14906
Location: Central Kentucky
Joined: December 20, 2000
Contributor
  Since: January 29, 2004

 

thanks for posting this. REG is consistently insightful. (nt), posted on June 12, 2011 at 05:53:12
Chuck
Audiophile

Posts: 565
Joined: August 22, 2000

 

RE: But but but.... why ?, posted on June 11, 2011 at 17:33:15
painter27
Audiophile

Posts: 2936
Location: wi.
Joined: January 7, 2003
 You only been in this a couple years? I think you got some learning to do yet.

Give it another 35+ years.

 

RE: But but but.... why ?, posted on June 11, 2011 at 18:15:21
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 19541
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
 Give it another 35+ years.

Oh, I have lots of learning to do yet and if I make it another 35+ years I'll be pretty fortunate. That's why I asked why?, and I'm getting some pretty good responses.

 

they say the same thing about transistors, posted on June 11, 2011 at 19:41:33
beach cruiser
Audiophile

Posts: 3336
Location: so cal
Joined: September 24, 2003
 Some say that tubes are the only way to go, some say the same stuff about vinyl. If the end result is happiness, it kind of opens the window of what's possible. If only owning the best stuff you read about is the goal, that's also fine with me.

 

RE: But but but.... why ?, posted on June 11, 2011 at 16:53:36
hesson11
Audiophile

Posts: 1708
Location: Florida
Joined: December 8, 2005
 Abe, just to give an example (perhaps not to be taken as a generality): I have two tables, one with a Soundsmith-retipped Shelter 501 Mk II and one with a Grado Reference Sonata1 (actually an MI). On LPs that tend toward the bright, hyper-detailed side, I prefer the Grado. It smooths and rounds out the sound very nicely while still being revealing AND very "musical."

On LPs that tend to be more neutral or darker in sound, I prefer the Shelter. It adds detail, air and a touch of sheen to the treble range.

I think you'll find that a good MM or MI will flesh out the sound vs. a good MC, which will tend to emphasize detail (again, speaking in broad generalities). I wouldn't really want to be without one of both.

I believe those who profess MMs to be inferior by nature are the same ones who prefer a highly detailed sound that favors the upper frequencies. But there are truly great examples of both types.
-Bob

 

RE: But but but.... why ?, posted on June 11, 2011 at 15:45:57
John Elison
Audiophile

Posts: 14906
Location: Central Kentucky
Joined: December 20, 2000
Contributor
  Since: January 29, 2004
 Hi Abe,

Low-output MC cartridges provide the greatest potential for achieving the best possible performance from vinyl because of their very low inductance. The high inductance of MM cartridges produces an electrical resonance that occurs within the audible frequency range thereby preventing them from ever achieving optimal performance. The reason that you rarely find expensive MM cartridges is because it is not worth putting money into a flawed design.

On the other hand, you need a good phono stage to get the most out of a low-output moving coil. When you have the correct equipment you should be able to easily hear the difference between MM and low-output MC. My advice would be to simply let your ears make up your mind. That's what I did 30-years ago and I reconfirmed my decision about 5-years ago. I prefer the sound of moving coils to moving magnets, and I know exactly why.

Best regards,
John Elison

 

read this ;), posted on June 11, 2011 at 15:08:36
dean man jim
Audiophile

Posts: 2083
Location: Nebraska
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Contributor
  Since: June 5, 2007
 Believe it or not, there are some who own stables of $2-$5K cartridges who also prefer some vintage MM; link attached....
"Never look at the trombones...it only encourages them." Richard Wagner

 

That is painful to read., posted on June 11, 2011 at 17:10:32
Biff
Audiophile

Posts: 6710
Location: Portland, Oregon
Joined: January 27, 2002
 Not because of the content, but the writing. I guess if I wrote in his native tongue it would be unreadable too.

 

It's tortuous, posted on June 11, 2011 at 16:40:27
Hergest Ridge
 I've been reading that damn thread for years with Rauliruegas telling everyone how right he is and how wrong they must be. A couple of times i've even bitten the bullet and tried one of the MMs mentioned as there must be something in it but each time i've come away disappointed and one of my LOMC cartridges has walked all over the MM.

 

it is rough, posted on June 11, 2011 at 17:26:22
beach cruiser
Audiophile

Posts: 3336
Location: so cal
Joined: September 24, 2003
 Obsessive compulsive much? I know those types of minds are real nice for science and research, but there is such a thing as boring.

 

Which mm's did you buy/try, and which lomc's walked all over them? nt, posted on June 11, 2011 at 16:57:23
Rick W
Audiophile

Posts: 8053
Location: NJ
Joined: October 3, 2001
 nt

 

Quite a few, posted on June 11, 2011 at 17:31:57
Hergest Ridge
 New, a Goldring 1042 GX, Garrot Bros P77 and Nagaoka MP300. I had a Nagaoka MP11 years ago which i liked. Used and what i suppose is classed as vintage, a couple of Signets, a TK5E and M55(?), some cheap Audio Technicas whos nomenclature escapes me which i believe might have been Signets anyway and finally an Empire 600 something. Each one was fine in that they tracked well, had plenty of midrange warmth and enjoyment but none of the fine detail and air that i've had from an Ortofon Jubilee, Cadenza Black, VdH MC10 Special, Phase Tech P-3. That lack of detail especially is what i miss the most and for me is important in a cartridge.

 

Certainly not an equal comparison cost-wise., posted on June 11, 2011 at 19:06:50
Rick W
Audiophile

Posts: 8053
Location: NJ
Joined: October 3, 2001
 About the only mm's/mi's I'm aware of that are in the same monetary ballpark are the top echelon Grado's and Soundsmith's, which apparently you haven't tried.

Anyway, to each his own. I was just curious. Thanks.

 

No that's true, posted on June 11, 2011 at 21:17:02
Hergest Ridge
 But then again i've not seen a MM that costs as much as either of the Ortofons. I had a Denon DL 304 too which i really enjoyed and that was pretty much on par with the MP300 price wise and i liked the Denon far more. I can certainly see the advantages of using a MM but the drawbacks in the ones i've listened to spoil the listening pleasure for me. I certainly wouldn't use a cheap high output MC rather than MM as i dislike the couple of those i've owned greatly.

 

Seconded. nt , posted on June 11, 2011 at 16:34:42
Rick W
Audiophile

Posts: 8053
Location: NJ
Joined: October 3, 2001
 nt

 

why ?, posted on June 11, 2011 at 14:17:59
hifitommy
Audiophile

Posts: 12280
Location: shaky sylmar calif, orig from buffalo ny
Joined: June 9, 2000
 hi abe,

many of us cut our teeth on MMs and in those days, MCs had rising top ends that were hard to tolerate. as time wore on, preamps were devised to cope with those problems and the carts were subsequently designed to not have such severe rising tops.

we still have some of those old units and use them now and again. having a detachable headshell is a big benefit here. one must be cautioned though that certain carts like the ADCs really need low mass arms and the technics arms arent suitable. sure, there are those out there that will maintain that they havent had any probs with that but those original ADCs and sounuses were delicate and truly need low mass arms.

MC carts are usually not so delicate in the suspension and many times need a higher mass arm to function properly.
...regards...tr

 

there is more to it for me, posted on June 11, 2011 at 16:18:29
beach cruiser
Audiophile

Posts: 3336
Location: so cal
Joined: September 24, 2003
 I guess it comes down to the ugly truth, my records have problems. If I have a flat one, with a good center, with good music, its notable. Why invest in more accuracy than my records generally can deliver, if that accuracy comes with strings attached.

I like the higher compliance designs because for me, the recording is the key part of the playback. Easy on the records is a big plus for me, and having a consumable item (the cart tip) that is DIY is better.

My stereo already sounds better than yours, so why look for complicating the signal chain just so I can have the latest greatest.

I was recently at an audio show and both styles of carts could bring all you could want with the right speakers. That last drop of performance that a moving coil is reported to bring is always a temptation, upgrading the cart is fun and an instant hit.

But a lot of people report a better outcome on non complicated musical lines with a MM. Most of my stuff is rock and jazz, classical rarely makes it to the table.

Easy to own, easy on the records, sounds good to me. A big lesson I learned at the hi fi show was the big deal holy grail stuff that the mags rave about is for a very rare bird, one that also has a big grip of cash. I wouldn't enjoy sitting alone in my special listening room , as almost required by the big money stuff. I like nice sounds , but a system that requires a super cart is not for me.

So I ask, does my system need more cart? Well, yes, I want one, but not really. I'm getting along fine with an easy to live with hot rod type of concept. I don't need a race car approach, as tempting as that is every once in a while. My system is more street than racetrack, because simple play back is more fun for me. Others might like a more science experiment type of listen, a moving coil is right in their sweet spot, I suppose.

If I break a tip, I go to the closet and get out my other tip, stored just in case. A 150 dollar mistake is still better than screwing up even more money. Plus, I take pride in sharing, all my guests can play with my stuff , so far all have declined to use the record player , but they like to listen.

 

Abe, if you heard my Black Widow/ADC XLM MKII combo,, posted on June 11, 2011 at 15:15:57
Opus 104
Audiophile

Posts: 9337
Location: Northern Virginia
Joined: June 13, 2008
Contributor
  Since: July 20, 2008
 you would not ask, "why?"






Opus 104

 

RE: Lets Start A Favorite MM Cart Thread....Inspired By Opus, posted on June 11, 2011 at 12:59:04
dean man jim
Audiophile

Posts: 2083
Location: Nebraska
Joined: August 8, 2005
Contributor
  Since: June 5, 2007
 I have small stash of vintage MM/MI/MF cartridges and replacement styli, and could easily live with any of them, but I do have a couple of favorites (both MM)...


Empire 1000 ZE/X (introduced in 1969)




Acutex LPM 315 III STR (introduced in 1980)




"Never look at the trombones...it only encourages them." Richard Wagner

 

Of those I've heard, I like what I own -- Grado Master, ATML 170, Ortofon M20fl Super nt, posted on June 11, 2011 at 12:58:14
Rick W
Audiophile

Posts: 8053
Location: NJ
Joined: October 3, 2001
 nt

 

RE: Of those I've heard, I like what I own -- Grado Master, ATML 170, Ortofon M20fl Super nt, posted on June 11, 2011 at 16:59:03
spindoctor
Audiophile

Posts: 613
Location: Virginia
Joined: December 31, 2002
 I'm also a huge Grado fan... never had hum or tracking issues and the sound to my ears is exquisite!

 

I can 't get a handle on the product line., posted on June 11, 2011 at 20:04:48
beach cruiser
Audiophile

Posts: 3336
Location: so cal
Joined: September 24, 2003
 I would like to consider Grado, but the line has names that don't put much distance between models, and it would be kind of expensive to buy almost the right cart for me, just because I can't figure out the line.

I don't know of any other American carts, and as an American, I think it would be fun to have a Grado.

 

RE: I can 't get a handle on the product line., posted on June 12, 2011 at 09:01:16
mark111
Audiophile

Posts: 4228
Joined: April 12, 2002
 Pickering was made in the US ,but I don't know if they still are.
Soundsmith and Empire are a couple more.

enjoy,
mark

 

thanks., posted on June 14, 2011 at 09:22:19
beach cruiser
Audiophile

Posts: 3336
Location: so cal
Joined: September 24, 2003
 I'll keep those in mind.

 

Grado Sonata and Grado Statement, posted on June 11, 2011 at 17:01:02
spindoctor
Audiophile

Posts: 613
Location: Virginia
Joined: December 31, 2002
 wonderful sounds on my Thorens decks.
Sim

 

RE: Of those I've heard, I like what I own -- Grado Master, ATML 170, Ortofon M20fl Super nt, posted on June 11, 2011 at 14:14:36
Hugh Jass
 aren't all Grado carts moving coil or moving iron as they sometimes call them? I have had a statement Sonata for many years and love it. There aren't too many people on this board with them (maybe the Hum rumours).
Pete

 

We aren't the only vinyl inmates who use Grado wood bodies. nt, posted on June 11, 2011 at 15:49:47
Rick W
Audiophile

Posts: 8053
Location: NJ
Joined: October 3, 2001
 nt

 

Bang & Olufsen MMC2/ Ortofon 2M Black/ Grado Signature 8M, posted on June 11, 2011 at 12:35:45
Curious
Dealer

Posts: 5360
Joined: April 28, 2010
 Honorable mention goes to the Audio Technica AT14SA. After it broke in, it became very smooth and refined.

But the B&O MMC2 still impresses me most.

"Hope is a good thing. Maybe, the best of things. And no good thing ever dies."

 

my faves are..., posted on June 11, 2011 at 12:17:30
hifitommy
Audiophile

Posts: 12280
Location: shaky sylmar calif, orig from buffalo ny
Joined: June 9, 2000
 all time fave is the adcXLM by a long shot. the original tas review was right on the money. i love the rounded natural bass, beautiful and image laden mids, and the smooth and accurate top. the dynamics are also a big plus.

i also love my f9e for some of the same reasons listed for the XLM.

the stanton 881s is a surprising cartridge and i am surprised more hasnt been made of it.

a NON mm but non MC that i still lust after is the micro-acoustics 2002e which was exceedingly linear and dynamic, comparable to the ADC descendant-sonus. damn i loved pritchard's designs.
...regards...tr

 

MA 2002e Piezoelectric device, posted on June 12, 2011 at 18:08:55
Ryan T
Audiophile

Posts: 988
Location: Winnipeg
Joined: April 17, 2002
 The Micro-Acoustic 2002e is actually a piezoelectric device or a low-mass electrostatic equivalent of a magnet.

My dad once owned a MA and I was impressed with the sound quality and tracking ability. The MA was critically acclaimed by critics and users alike.

 

2002e , posted on June 12, 2011 at 18:20:30
hifitommy
Audiophile

Posts: 12280
Location: shaky sylmar calif, orig from buffalo ny
Joined: June 9, 2000
 yeah, they called it an electret. i would have loved to go up the line but the finances or raising a family at the time prohibited that. the 2002e itself was excellent, i miss it a lot, nearly as much as my beloved XLM.
...regards...tr

 

RE: 2002e , posted on June 12, 2011 at 18:23:56
Ryan T
Audiophile

Posts: 988
Location: Winnipeg
Joined: April 17, 2002
 Several years ago, I did track down the MA at my sister's residence and I was disappointed when I discovered the cartridge was 'dismantled' into to bits and pieces. Sigh.

 

AKG P8E w/ NOS stylus, posted on June 11, 2011 at 12:11:55
dogwan
Audiophile

Posts: 712
Joined: December 16, 2004
Contributor
  Since: April 24, 2008
 Mounted on a Black Widow. Absolutely ROCKS!

 

Peanut! Oh, wait... -nt, posted on June 11, 2011 at 11:24:45
Bry
Audiophile

Posts: 4756
Location: S. Florida
Joined: July 21, 2005
 nt

 

Jico SAS MM-1, posted on June 11, 2011 at 11:22:31
nu2toobs
Audiophile

Posts: 643
Location: So. Utah
Joined: December 1, 2007
 nt
___
The gear that sounds the best to you, is the best.........................to you.

 

Ortofon 2M Black & Shure V15 Type IV, posted on June 11, 2011 at 11:02:08
audio39
Audiophile

Posts: 515
Joined: July 15, 2003
 nt

 

care to elaborate?, posted on June 11, 2011 at 16:57:56
beach cruiser
Audiophile

Posts: 3336
Location: so cal
Joined: September 24, 2003
 THe reason I ask is that I have the Sure, and was considering if the 2M black was an upgrade. I still miss the original styli sound on the Shure.

I was pleased to find the old Shure, just like yours and mine, on a demo out at a hi fi show last week end. It was on the main system in one room. (not the $300,000 dollar stereo room)

I also came across a 2M black, but in was on a secondary system with some weird flat panel tweeter speakers that had angles somewhat like short legged Tiki statues, and could have used a good kick to the curb. Bummer, in the stack was a current production classic Luxman integrated that I also wanted to hear. The guy did say they would ship with upgraded drivers. I hope so, for his sake.

 

Shure VST-V, posted on June 11, 2011 at 11:01:51
Fred J
Audiophile

Posts: 21240
Location: Southern Wisconsin
Joined: April 24, 2002
 The Signet TK7E is right up there, I just never used mine all that much because
the Styli were rare as Hens teeth, I ended up getting an AKAi stylus I had to trim down with an X acto knife to fit to the Signet body, now there are JICO styli for the
Signet TK7E so you're dialed in.

Regards Ferd
Coming to a bookstore near you: "American Colonoscopy: The Bush Years"

 

ADC XLM MKII, Grace F9E, Shure Ultra 500. , posted on June 11, 2011 at 10:44:54
Opus 104
Audiophile

Posts: 9337
Location: Northern Virginia
Joined: June 13, 2008
Contributor
  Since: July 20, 2008



ADC XLM MKII





Grace F9E





Shure Ultra 500








Opus 104

 

Audio Technica AT20SLa ..., posted on June 11, 2011 at 10:34:11
Quadzilla
Audiophile

Posts: 1979
Location: Southwestern Ontario
Joined: July 31, 2003
 ... with Shibata stylus in a Rega RB300 Incognito tonearm on a P3 turntable ... and it plays CD-4 quadradisk LPs as well as stereo. I do love my MC pickups though.

Prehistoric 4-Channel Lizard

 

Goldring 1042 /nt, posted on June 11, 2011 at 10:29:30
Bob_in_OKC
Audiophile

Posts: 102
Joined: March 13, 2011
 ...

 

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