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Abysmal sound quality from Fleetwood Mac Rumours 45RPM Reissue

130.76.64.115
Posted on June 9, 2011 at 10:27:56
Johnnybegood


 
This past weekend I attended "The Show" in Newport beach and got a chance to hear the new Basis Inspiration turntable in action. The Vandersteen 5A speakers were used for the demo along with Audio Research equipment. Joe Harley put on the new Fleetwood Mac "Rumours" 45 rpm record for one song and I was shocked at the poor sound quality. The bass was deep and the inner detail was good But there was no life or energy in the music. Fleetwood Mac sounded clean and clear with a sterile lifeless quality to the sound. Very laid back and quiet vinyl but completely uninvolving. This is the complete opposite of how Fleetwood Mac sounds live.

I mentioned to A.J. Conti, owner of Basis Audio, that there was something wrong with the sound of Rumours and after the song was over he put on a reissue of willy Nelson Stardust record which sounded much, much better with sweeter highs and a more natural and engaging sound. A.J. Conti then put on several 1970's original pressings he brought with him to demo and the sound was even better yet. Completely natural with a wonderful midrange and stunning vocal clarity. The new Basis Inspiration table sounded superb with this original material. This new Fleetwood Mac modern reissue does not recreate the live event and is far removed from the energy this band produces. Avoid this lifeless record and buy two to four 1977 originals and select the best sounding of the bunch. They may not play as quiet as the reissue but there is likely to be much more toe tapping when listening to the originals.

Johnny

 

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For crying out loud!, posted on June 9, 2011 at 10:42:43
goober58
 It's a studio production what did you expect? Audiophiles have been plunking down big money for audiophile reissues of this kind of stuff for ever - as if better mastering is going to get them a more live sound from studio productions.

There's any number of sources for live Fleetwood Mac recordings including the 3 disk Fleetwood Mac Live that has most songs from Rumours on it.

I hate this "live" lie - truth is the best a reissue can be is as good as the original master tape. If it wasn't a live recording in the first place it ain't getting more live as a reissue.

Get your expectations in order! It really is a fool who would buy this expecting it to sound more live.

 

It's not a "live" recording-, posted on June 9, 2011 at 10:54:12
cdb
Audiophile

Posts: 2948
Joined: April 6, 2001
 it's a multi-track mono studio work with very high production effort. It sounds quite analog to me and isn't drowned in artificial reverb.

For a big disappointment, listen to "Talk to Me", Crystal Visions...Very Best of Stevie Nicks, WEAALP49983. That one screams digital, and collapses into a turgid soup of confused zeros and ones on the crescendos.

 

Don't you think it's a little irresponsible..., posted on June 9, 2011 at 11:07:15
EdAInWestOC
Audiophile

Posts: 6828
Location: Glen Burnie, MD USA
Joined: December 18, 2003
 To make a recommendation or flatly rule out a LP based on the sound heard on a strange system in a unknown environment?

I happen to own this LP and it doesn't sound the way you characterized it. Its amazing how many people are willing to trash a LP especially if its an audiophile reissue. Its a common place occurence around here.

It might be worthwhile to remember that the reason that audiophile LPs exist at all is due to the poor quality of commercial pressings. If commercial pressings were so great there would not have been a market for premium priced LPs. Back in the late 1970s and early 1980s the state of commercial pressings was anything but great.

Ed
Life is analog...digital is just samples thereof

 

Oh, I don't know, posted on June 9, 2011 at 11:35:45
esande
Audiophile

Posts: 1663
Location: Washington, DC
Joined: December 27, 2008
 A few posts back I was complaining about the surface, dude!

It never was anything but a slicked up pop record, man. If you were alive in the 1970s you've heard every track on it hundreds of times.

This reissue sounds good to me, for what it is. I don't know what you were expecting, but it's a pretty good transfer of a pretty good record.

It ain't like a freaking performance, it's a product, and a good one.

"Gold Dust Woman" is IMHO the best cut on it, with "The Chain" coming in at number 2. But the whole thing is polished to the point that it's more of a shiny object than not.

Yes, it's a good 1970s pop record. But that's all it is.

 

Before reviewing anything, try registering. /nt\, posted on June 9, 2011 at 11:55:21
Opus 104

 

Breathe deeply and count backwards from one hundred..., posted on June 9, 2011 at 13:33:01
Fretless
Audiophile

Posts: 5079
Location: Los Angeles: The Ashtray of Southern California
Joined: June 12, 2001
 I can't comment on something as ludicrous as a 45 RPM audiophile reissue of Rumours, as I haven't heard it -- I find Stevie Nicks-infested Fleetwood Mac unlistenable -- but "clean, clear, sterile, lifeless and uninvolving" are defining characteristics of the majority of audiophile reissues and every one of the Conti turntable designs in my experience. Put 'em together and you have musical anesthesia. ZZZzzzzz...














 

RE: Abysmal sound quality from Fleetwood Mac Rumours 45RPM Reissue, posted on June 9, 2011 at 15:16:11
blake
Audiophile

Posts: 803
Joined: May 25, 2000
 Link below is to a direct comparison of the Hoffman 33 (one review of it suggested that it offers up about 85-90% of the performance of the 45) that I did with a very early, if not first, Canadian pressing that a number of people have felt sounds pretty good. I was able to pick up the 33 used for $16 and thought the comparison would be interesting. It's a few posts down in the link.

If you read the Hoffman forum, you'll be lead to believe the 45 is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Die hard fans might yearn for the 45 just for the sake of having it. I don't mind "Rumours" but it is not a record that I'd choose to play a lot.

Mike Lavigne offered up a similar criticism of the 45 when compared against an early U.S. original; he was probably even more critical than me. In any event, everyone's ears are different, but I can definitely agree that the reissue lacks the energy of the original while perhaps improving upon it in some other areas.

My pristine original was in a group of records given to me by a client. I ended up trading the Hoffman 33 back to the record store for credit as I didn't feel the need to own two copies of this record and the original sounds very good.

The 45 is an outrageous amount of money (IMO) when you can find quality originals of this record in the dollar bins. I'd agree with your suggestion to buy a few copies of the original and keep the best.

 

great post, posted on June 9, 2011 at 15:30:08
goober58
 If you look at the pop/rock titles that were selected as worthy of audiophile reissues they are usually very good sounding records in the first place.

For me I would never buy an expensive reissue of a recording I was not familiar with if it was available used. And thus whenever I bought expensive reissues they were of music I already appreciated. Unfortunately more often than not I preferred the sound of the originals inspite of the fact that in some ways the sound (usually to the detriment of my musical enjoyment) of the reissues was improved.

FWIW - DCC and CBS Mastersound produced some of the best audiophile reissues IMO.

 

OT---I just saw your signature photo, Fretless--- The guy's a deadringer for Tim 'Tool Time' Allen(NT), posted on June 9, 2011 at 16:34:39
matt67bianco
Audiophile

Posts: 3106
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Joined: January 23, 2006
 nt

 

Uh, methinks it IS Tim Allen. /nt\, posted on June 9, 2011 at 16:49:37
Opus 104

 

Hmmm... Could be. Then,again. what do I know---Once, I kept wonderin' what Geraldo Rivera..., posted on June 9, 2011 at 17:39:18
matt67bianco
Audiophile

Posts: 3106
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Joined: January 23, 2006



...was doing in Tim Allen's old mugshot! :)

Cheers,

Matt

 

Hummm..., posted on June 9, 2011 at 18:32:27
Fretless
Audiophile

Posts: 5079
Location: Los Angeles: The Ashtray of Southern California
Joined: June 12, 2001

I have no idea, but I think the pic predates Tim. Here's a slightly larger version.
















 

The 33 1/3 sounds great and is a bargain..., posted on June 9, 2011 at 20:07:34
dschwab
Audiophile

Posts: 187
Location: Minnesota
Joined: March 21, 2010
 I've had several pressings of this title and, if you happen to like the album there is, IMO, a great chance you will find the LP or 45 RPM set to be to your liking.

Got mine for $23 shipped. If you think about inflation, this is a great price for what will likely prove to be the definitive version of an iconic album.

Agree with the fact that it's ludicrous to review an album after only hearing it on unfamiliar equipment and in an unfamiliar room.

 

RE: Abysmal sound quality from Fleetwood Mac Rumours 45RPM Reissue, posted on June 9, 2011 at 22:14:44
SgreenP@MSN.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3538
Joined: April 23, 2007
 Agreed Johnny....I have the original Rumers LP and heard over my 5A's, it is a thrilling experience.

 

RE: Abysmal sound quality from Fleetwood Mac Rumours 45RPM Reissue, posted on June 10, 2011 at 06:12:22
sudz1234@yahoo.com
Audiophile

Posts: 2956
Joined: February 20, 2011
 I have a copy of the 45prm version. It's only been played one time. I'll take 30.00 which includes shipping in the continental U.S.

 

RE: For crying out loud!, posted on June 10, 2011 at 15:19:50
hchinaski
Audiophile

Posts: 32
Location: Los Angeles
Joined: June 10, 2011
 Would the "live event" be the part where the recording engineers realized that the 2" was worn down to the point that the snare sounded like the kick, and they hired a guy from ABC records to come over and fly in the drums manually from the backup 2" using the varispeed control on the 24 track to keep them in sync? Or the manual comping of 6 tracks of guitar overdubs to one track?

 

Tim Allen has a forum..., posted on June 10, 2011 at 20:12:54
Bry
Manufacturer

Posts: 5610
Location: S. Florida
Joined: July 21, 2005
 If you posted it there, I bet someone could figure out if it's Tim and if so, where it's from.

 

Every crap Reissue gets raves today, posted on June 11, 2011 at 07:09:37
Stitch
Audiophile

Posts: 736
Location: Camden (New Jersey)
Joined: April 3, 2007
 It is the way it is, the customer is the loser. High End has its own laws today...

Kind Regards


 

I did that yesterday would you believe., posted on June 11, 2011 at 08:16:12
Biff
Audiophile

Posts: 7527
Location: Portland, Oregon
Joined: January 27, 2002
 Waiting for replies.

 

Thanks for the review. I wonder if that reissue is from Steve Hoffman., posted on June 12, 2011 at 00:33:57
hukkfinn
Audiophile

Posts: 3486
Location: East Coast
Joined: July 19, 2002
 He is widely respected but the re-issues from him that I have heard have sounded, to me, dead as a doornail. Just totally messed up. Similar to your description of the Rumors 45rpm.

Hukk

 

There are two versions of the 45rpm Rumors, posted on June 13, 2011 at 14:49:27
Ski Bum
Audiophile

Posts: 34
Location: Long Island
Joined: May 12, 2008
 There are two versions of the 45rpm Rumors, and both are currently available. One is a Steve Hoffman remaster, and the other is not. I have the Hoffman version -- it is almost as dynamic as an early original, has somewhat warmer tone, and a wider soundstage. I understand that the non-Hoffman version does not sound as good. The 33rpm is a Hoffman remaster.

 

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