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Help me choose a TT from short list

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Posted on November 8, 2009 at 06:15:40
KLechterO78s
Audiophile

Posts: 57
Location: Lake Cumberland, KY
Joined: September 26, 2009
 Hello everyone. I need your help here. I desperately need a new TT to begin enjoying the hundreds of old 78's I've bought since starting my new obsession only a few months ago. I've decided that, although budget isn't an issue, it's too early on in my new "hobby" to spend several thousand $$ on any component. In other words, I want to spend a lot more time assembling an appropriate sound system. In the meantime, I've narrowed my possible purchase down to two models-- the Rek-O-Cut Rondine III (or) the Technics SL-1200 with KAB mods. Which one do you folks recommend, and, are there any notable shortcomings with either model. Not considering price difference...which model would you say offers the best sound quality?? I know the SL 1200 is popular on this forum...but could this merely be an illusion...due to the fact that pricewise it is much more accessible to the average person...I mean, as prices go up, the numbers of people buying/owning them tends to go down. Anyway, I'm going to do this in the next couple of days and the advice of the people on this board carries a lot of weight with me-- it will heavily influence my decision!

P.S. Just FYI the amplifier I will be using is a Bogen DB-20 (mono). My discs are 78 rpm, mono, mostly pre-war, shellac, and the majority are Vic Red Seals.

veering from the short list/muddying the water, posted on November 9, 2009 at 10:08:31
d to the g
Audiophile

Posts: 194
Location: mpls
Joined: July 24, 2007
 Have you thought about a Lenco? Because most of the 78s were NOT recorded at 78, continuously adjustable frequency on a table that was built to play 78s might not be a bad idea.

RE: Help me choose a TT from short list, posted on November 9, 2009 at 09:51:58
latestyle
Audiophile

Posts: 50
Location: NYC
Joined: July 3, 2009
 Given the associated gear and the software, I vote for ROK.

RE: Help me choose a TT from short list, posted on November 8, 2009 at 22:23:07
learsfool
Audiophile

Posts: 199
Joined: August 4, 2008
 IMO, considering that you are going to be spinning pre-war 78's which you say are most RCA Victor Red Seals, and also assuming that these are mostly classical, probably vocal records, I don't think that the Technics will be a very good choice. They are very bright sounding tables that do not do particularly well at resolving vocal and instrumental timbral differences. Until quite recently, they have mostly been considered DJ tables. I know they have a big following on this forum of late, but I had a Technics and was very underwhelmed. Not a bad table, but I agree that you can do much better for the money. On the other hand, if I am wrong in my guess about the type of music you will be playing, and you will be listening to mostly electronically produced music, then you may be perfectly happy with the Technics. The vast majority of people who like them seem to be primarily rock listeners.

Why not a used Dual?, posted on November 8, 2009 at 16:52:37
michael22
Audiophile

Posts: 266
Joined: October 1, 2001
 It's not on your short list, I know, but you might look around for a good used Dual 1229 or similar. Great sounding vintage turntable that would do justice to your 78s.

RE: Help me choose a TT from short list, posted on November 8, 2009 at 12:40:32
Jeff Day
Reviewer

Posts: 471
Location: Washington State
Joined: October 20, 2000
 Go for the Rek O Kut. I heard one recently and was impressed. I wouldn't consider the SL1200 if I were you, I bought a new one from KAB with all the KAB mods and then some, but it was still only a modest performer - you can do better.

Best,

Jeff

RE: Help me choose a TT from short list, posted on November 8, 2009 at 18:44:03
cactuscowboy@bresnan.net
Audiophile

Posts: 2883
Location: Powell, Wyoming
Joined: July 23, 2007
 Do you not understand the original poster IS LOOKING TO SPIN 78s? By any reasonable standard, either the Rek-O-Cut or the Technics would be an excellent choice for the stated purpose, despite your highly suspect derogatory comments.
What is this; a witchhunt organised by the Technics Lurkers Association?, posted on November 9, 2009 at 02:09:43
B.K.
Audiophile

Posts: 569
Location: Ireland
Joined: February 18, 2007
Contributor
  Since: March 12, 2007
 A quote from your post:

"despite your highly suspect derogatory comments"

Which aspect of the original post was "highly suspect"?

Why don't you do the forum a favour and direct your opinion to the original poster, rather than towards someone with an opposing view.

For the record, if I was given the choice, I would pick the Rek-o-Cut.

BK

I don't see a turntable or phono pre in your system, posted on November 8, 2009 at 13:25:08
texanater
Audiophile

Posts: 817
Location: San Pedro, CA -- Transplanted from Houston, TX
Joined: December 16, 2002
 Are they not posted or do you not own them? I'm just curious because "I bought a new one from KAB with all the KAB mods and then some, but it was still only a modest performer" is a bold statement that I've never heard made by anyone else. I'm not trying to be antagonistic, just trying to see what your perspective is. I gotta think at the moment that you aren't a vinyl guy. The lack of vinyl gear in your posted system suggests that. Also, in what price range are you saying the technics is a modest performer? Again, I'm not trying to start a pissing session. Just curious.

Nate


There comes a time in the affairs of a man when he must take the bull by the tail and face the situation -- W.C. Fields
Your position is basically: "I disagree, therefore you probably don't know much", posted on November 8, 2009 at 14:03:02
B.K.
Audiophile

Posts: 569
Location: Ireland
Joined: February 18, 2007
Contributor
  Since: March 12, 2007
There was a time - about 6 or 7 years ago - when anyone who posted here with something positive to say about the Technics SL-1200 was shouted down by the herd chanting "Belt-drive good, direct drive bad".

Now things have changed, there is a more diverse perspective here, which is good; however, adopting the contrary dogma is no better in my opinion.

BK
Thats not what I meant, sorry if I gave that impression, posted on November 8, 2009 at 14:14:41
texanater
Audiophile

Posts: 817
Location: San Pedro, CA -- Transplanted from Houston, TX
Joined: December 16, 2002
 I agree with you fully the argument you interpreted would hold no weight, and I would never make it. I thought I clarified my question by stating "I'm just trying to see what your perspective is." I wasn't even trying to be contrary to what he posted. I just found it odd that someone would make such a big statement and have the "R" next to his name but not include his vinyl set up in his system description. I was more curious about that than trying to gage whether his opinion was valid. The line "I gotta think at the moment that you aren't a vinyl guy" was more a clarification of why I was confused rather than a statement.

Again, sorry if that is the way my post read. That is not at all what I meant. I was just trying to put his statement into some kind of context.

Nate

There comes a time in the affairs of a man when he must take the bull by the tail and face the situation -- W.C. Fields
That's not how I read your post at all . . ., posted on November 8, 2009 at 18:53:59
JoshT
Audiophile

Posts: 2839
Location: Eastern Massachusetts
Joined: July 4, 2000
Contributor
  Since: July 22, 2000
 To me it was clear you were just asking for clarification. But then it is hard to communicate in writing only.

I personally would like to hear from people who don't like the Technics, or find it only modest. They are few and far between these days, and B.K. is correct that the SL1200 was a laughing stock on VA until about 6 years ago or so.
___
"If you are the owner of a new stereophonic system, this record will play with even more brilliant true-to-life fidelity. In short, you can purchase this record with no fear of its becoming obsolete in the future."
RE: I don't see a turntable or phono pre in your system, posted on November 8, 2009 at 13:35:27
Jeff Day
Reviewer

Posts: 471
Location: Washington State
Joined: October 20, 2000
 That's because it isn't up to date and hasn't been for quite a while.

Not a vinyl guy? Hahahahahah ... you don't get out much do you?

Best,

Jeff

Don't worry, posted on November 8, 2009 at 19:32:59
Milos
Audiophile

Posts: 247
Joined: August 16, 2002
 We know who you are. We do now.

What a ridiculous response!, posted on November 8, 2009 at 18:50:16
JoshT
Audiophile

Posts: 2839
Location: Eastern Massachusetts
Joined: July 4, 2000
Contributor
  Since: July 22, 2000
 I sure has sh#t haven't heard of you either. Sorry, but I guess you just are not as well known as you think you are.

How about actually ANSWERING Nate's questions? They are legitimate, and I'd like to hear your thoughts. I do not have a Technics. I've got a Scout and a Thorens, so there's no pride issue here. I'm curious because there is so much said on this forum about how great the SL1200 is and it would be interesting to hear a reasoned difference of opinion.
___
"If you are the owner of a new stereophonic system, this record will play with even more brilliant true-to-life fidelity. In short, you can purchase this record with no fear of its becoming obsolete in the future."
Agree, Day's response was lame, but it wasn't exactly a monumental task to find his system listed at PF., posted on November 8, 2009 at 19:43:06
Rick W
Audiophile

Posts: 6109
Joined: October 3, 2001
 Scroll down. You'll notice he had a Tech. 1200 at the time, and from every review I've read of their stuff, his Leben pre/phono is very good.
Thanks, and . . ., posted on November 8, 2009 at 19:49:14
JoshT
Audiophile

Posts: 2839
Location: Eastern Massachusetts
Joined: July 4, 2000
Contributor
  Since: July 22, 2000
 All the more reason why it would be helpful for him to describe what he liked and did not like about the Technics. I have come close to buying one, but for one reason or another never have. At least not yet.
___
"If you are the owner of a new stereophonic system, this record will play with even more brilliant true-to-life fidelity. In short, you can purchase this record with no fear of its becoming obsolete in the future."
Give it a rest, posted on November 9, 2009 at 02:00:47
B.K.
Audiophile

Posts: 569
Location: Ireland
Joined: February 18, 2007
Contributor
  Since: March 12, 2007
 Your argument is untenable.

An opinion was posted above; there is no onus of responsibility on the poster to prove to YOUR satisfaction that the opinion is valid or not, or to justify the opinion.

Whether YOU buy a Technics or not is YOUR concern.

Moreover, considering the fact that the majority of posts in this thread are from people who didn't actually read the original post, I'd say that Jeff Day's contribution here is one of the more helpful.

BK
Seriously? ... Seriously?, posted on November 8, 2009 at 13:53:23
texanater
Audiophile

Posts: 817
Location: San Pedro, CA -- Transplanted from Houston, TX
Joined: December 16, 2002
 If I don't know who you are then I don't get out much?!? Uhhhhhh... Thats kinda wierd guy. Are you one of those celebrities that no one knows about?

Nate

There comes a time in the affairs of a man when he must take the bull by the tail and face the situation -- W.C. Fields
I have a rek o kut L-34 and a 1200, posted on November 8, 2009 at 06:39:10
texanater
Audiophile

Posts: 817
Location: San Pedro, CA -- Transplanted from Houston, TX
Joined: December 16, 2002
 and you can't go wrong either way. The L-34 doesn't do 78s but I think rek o kut designs are very similar so I'm probably in the ball park if the one you are considering. Of course you'll have to build a plinth for the rek o kut which can be either good or bad based on your interests.

I say get them both. They are both great examples of their design approach. It sounds like budget is not a big issue for you so I say jump in, its a blast. I love having both and wont get rid of them for anything.

By the way, the 1200 is everything its cracked up to be.

Nate

There comes a time in the affairs of a man when he must take the bull by the tail and face the situation -- W.C. Fields
RE: I have a rek o kut L-34 and a 1200, posted on November 8, 2009 at 07:58:37
KLechterO78s
Audiophile

Posts: 57
Location: Lake Cumberland, KY
Joined: September 26, 2009
 That's what makes it tough to decide which one! Budget, for one or the other isn't a concern, but to buy both would be taxing my pocketbook a bit much. The SL-1200/KAB has a lot of publicity and appears to be a very good value at almost half the price of the Rondine III. The Rondine III is lesser known to me and I've not received a lot of feedback on it. It certainly appears to be a good product from what I read on the website...BUT at almost twice the price of the SL1200-KAB, I would expect...no, demand that it be noticeably superior to the SL1200. That's the root of my post here...does the Rondine offer higher quality parts, construction, and sound quality in line with its significantly higher price?

Cactus cowboy is correct, posted on November 8, 2009 at 09:41:38
texanater
Audiophile

Posts: 817
Location: San Pedro, CA -- Transplanted from Houston, TX
Joined: December 16, 2002
 I didn't think about the model you mentioned and just assumed it was one of the vintage decks that are fairly common. I know nothing about the new rek o kuts so kinda disregard what I said with respect to it. You can get some outstanding vintage idler rek o kuts for $150-$300 that play 78s. I was referring to getting a technics AND a vintage rek o kut idler drive. I believe the L-37 does 78s.

Interstage Tranny is right though, the vintage reks will take some TLC. You'll need to build a plinth for it and probably get a new idler. These are not big issues and the pay off is BIG.

Nate

There comes a time in the affairs of a man when he must take the bull by the tail and face the situation -- W.C. Fields
Cost no object ? Rekokuts used to be budget decks..., posted on November 8, 2009 at 08:19:43
Interstage Tranny
Audiophile

Posts: 1407
Location: Eastern
Joined: October 4, 2006
 Rekokuts are cranky old machines, requiring upgraded bearing and bases if you want to use them for stereo. Motor and rumble noise seem inherent unless proper machining is carried on. That makes their prices climb, unless you have some machine shop friends. For mono useage, Rekokuts are simply fine, as is, assuming a decent bearing and idler. Yeah, don't forget about needing new idlers every few years...

On the other hand, the Technics direct drive is SILENT. They never need maintenance ! While some say the direct drives can sound leaner than the idlers, I say horsepucky. Choose your favorite flavor of juicy cartridge and do not worry. So, which cartridges are you seeking ? Vintage, I hope...

Rondine III is a new, modern belt drive model...., posted on November 8, 2009 at 09:32:07
cactuscowboy@bresnan.net
Audiophile

Posts: 2883
Location: Powell, Wyoming
Joined: July 23, 2007
 I seriously considered the Rondine III a couple years ago, when in the market, but opted for a KAB Technics SL-1200MK5 with 78 rpm & other mods.

If you want a turntable that will do it all then the Rondine III would be a great choice. Two advantages it has over the Technics is that it will spin 16" discs and offers a wider range of speeds. So the question is, will you ever acquire 16" discs or an acoustic disc that requires 90 rpm playback?

In my case, I do have sixteen inchers but I can play them on my Technics SP-15. Although I own hundreds of older acoustic discs, I can play every one at correct speed on either the SL-1200 (plus/minus 8% pitch control) or the SP-15 (plus/minus 10% pitch control). In the rare event that I might acquire a disc requiring an unusual playback speed beyond the range of the Technics turntables, I can always transfer to digital and correct the pitch on the computer.

What I like about the SL-1200 is the abundance of features (essential for my needs), exceptionally high quality and performance, and ease of use.

If you're considering the SL-1200 and your budget will allow, I'd recommend including the tonearm dampener and Cardas tonearm rewire options in addition to 78 rpm.

RE: Rondine III is a new, modern belt drive model...., posted on November 8, 2009 at 09:41:24
KLechterO78s
Audiophile

Posts: 57
Location: Lake Cumberland, KY
Joined: September 26, 2009
 Thanks guys! My mind is slowly leaning in one direction...please chime in anyone else if you have any experience with these models. And no, I don't anticipate ever needing to spin a 16" disc, so some of the Rek-O-Kut's features are unnecessary, I agree. Thanks a bunch!

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