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New cartridge recommendations needed!

24.126.100.51
Posted on November 7, 2009 at 18:39:02
Theron D
Audiophile

Posts: 429
Location: Baltimore
Joined: June 21, 2004
 I've run the line of Audio Technica AT120E, AT440mla, AT150mlx in about 4 years. Looking to upgrade to a different flavor, better separation and detail. I have a Rega P5 and Rogue Stealth pre so I can go MM or MC. My favorite of the three is the AT120E but is has some problems with music separation and clarity when the music gets busy and chaotic (think alt rock distorted guitars and drums). I listen to everything from Rock, Punk, Jazz, Classical.

Narrowed to these:

Denon 103 or 103R or 160
Dynavector 10x5 or 20X
Ortofon Black

Which one would you recommend?

kind regards,

Theron
Baltimore
RE: New cartridge recommendations needed!, posted on November 8, 2009 at 16:39:44
apoman60612
Audiophile

Posts: 30
Joined: July 21, 2009
 you asked privately, and now I'll tell, about the ZYX Yatra.
The Yatra will outperform every other Cartridge mentioned here in this thread. Are you ready to spend $900 US? If you can, then contact somebody like Mehran at Sorasound, he might have some left? Otherwise, pay double through any other dealer. Mark

Nagaoka MP-50, posted on November 8, 2009 at 16:16:10
Shane from AUS
Audiophile

Posts: 1454
Location: Sydney
Joined: December 26, 2000
 that will be a step up from any of the other carts.

Dyna or Ortofon, posted on November 8, 2009 at 05:22:00
Plinko
Audiophile

Posts: 1359
Location: N East, USA
Joined: July 21, 2005
 ...assuming you have the Rega tonearm. The Dyna will have nice PRaT'y sound whereas the Ortofon will sound more fleshed out. Both great cartridges. I tried these two but not with your phono stage. I would probably choose a Dyna because I feel it's micro-dynamics edge the Black (esp the 20XH). For separation and detail, I would choose the 20XL with Line Contact stylus over the other choices.

The Denon 103/R will work in a Rega tonearm but is not ideal. Some may even say it sounds great in Rega tonearms. Many will cite measurements that indicate it works perfectly in a Rega tonearm. Sure, but the Rega tonearm is not ideal for this cartridge. I know because I have tried the Denon 103/R in a RB700 and also in several very high mass tonearms.

You may even have to add some weight to the headshell if using a Denon on a Rega.

The 103/R will sound even more fleshed out (fuller, superior tone) than the other two. Never heard the 160. The Denon will not have the separation and detail of the other two with it's conical stylus. The Denons are great cartridges and the biggest bargain in audio today...if you have the right tonearm.

imho

RE: Dyna or Ortofon, posted on November 8, 2009 at 14:32:47
mikeyc8
Audiophile

Posts: 41
Location: Canada
Joined: April 13, 2008
 I've tried the 10X5, 103 and 20XL on my RB300 and was most happy with the 20XL. The 20XL simply has more detail and air than the others. The 103 may be great bang for the buck, but I didn't feel any emotional attachment to the music whenever I used it, I would eventually gravitate to the 20XL due to boredom.

However, it was a different story when a buddy brought over his Auditorium 23 SUT and connected it to the 103, since this SUT is voiced for the 103 it really came alive then. The problem is that the A23 is over $1000, so it seems kinda silly using a cheap cart with it.

Detail and air, posted on November 8, 2009 at 15:41:35
Plinko
Audiophile

Posts: 1359
Location: N East, USA
Joined: July 21, 2005
 Agreed. 20XL would be the best choice here. My tastes have gravitated towards a thicker and weightier sound, where I've found the Denon superior.

I guess it all depends on how one looks at things. I don't think using an expensive SUT with a cheap cart is all that big a deal. Maybe the Denon was more expensive relative to other carts years ago?

Need more information from you, posted on November 8, 2009 at 04:25:59
hukkfinn
Audiophile

Posts: 2831
Location: East Coast
Joined: July 19, 2002
 Hi,
Happy to help, but if you tell us more about what you love about vinyl sound, it's easier to recommend something that YOU will enjoy.

Otherwise you're just going to get "our favorites" recommended to you. And "my favorite" might emphasize something that you do not like.

For just one example, the Dynavector 20xH sounds fantastic and really rocks. BUT if YOU are mainly looking for vocals to give you chills, you need seriously fleshed-out midrange. In that dept., the 20x may disappoint you. The Dynavector 10x5 has much more fleshed-out mids, while still doing very well in the toe tapping / boogie dept. (extended highs and lows are better in the 20x).

You mention separation - If you want super clarity and you don't worry too much about having an "emotional connection" with the music, I'd recommend the Clearaudio Virtuoso Wood. Unbelievably clear.

So, deepest bass, imaging, drums need to rock the house, clarity and detail, must be able to play even the dirtiest/worst records, must have awesome dynamics, must sound lush and warm, must have great speed and attack, must sound as neutral as possible, all you care about are vocals, etc?

Hukk
I've had all of them except the 103R. You cannot go wrong, posted on November 8, 2009 at 02:29:15
Opus 104
Audiophile

Posts: 2715
Location: Northern Virginia
Joined: June 13, 2008
Contributor
  Since: July 20, 2008
 with the Dyna 20XL. I have two of those and have been completely satisfied. They are used on a Rega and a Scout and soon to be on my restored Thorens.


"It was a dark and stormy night. I had taken a creative writing course." – Crow T. Robot, MST 3000.


High output or Low output?, posted on November 8, 2009 at 11:20:03
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 11769
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
 If you have a choice between the high output Dyna 20X or the low output 20X -AND- you have a phono preamp that can handle either, which do you choose?

Is there a sonic difference between the high output version vs low output? And is this typical of most MC cartridges that are offered in high output or low output versions? Which do you go for?

RE: High output or Low output?, posted on November 8, 2009 at 15:26:46
hukkfinn
Audiophile

Posts: 2831
Location: East Coast
Joined: July 19, 2002
 A comparison I did in April -

Hukk

Low, definitely. Some say they hear little difference between the, posted on November 8, 2009 at 11:54:17
Opus 104
Audiophile

Posts: 2715
Location: Northern Virginia
Joined: June 13, 2008
Contributor
  Since: July 20, 2008
 20XH and 20XL. I do hear a significant difference with the 20XL the clear winner. I've auditioned both in my system. I returned the XH and kept the XL.
As for other carts, I can't say first hand, although I've heard more preferrences for LO versions when compared to HO brothers.


"It was a dark and stormy night. I had taken a creative writing course." – Crow T. Robot, MST 3000.



Thanks! That's good to know..... -nt, posted on November 8, 2009 at 12:55:09
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 11769
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
 .

RE: New cartridge recommendations needed!, posted on November 7, 2009 at 23:20:27
JeffH
Audiophile

Posts: 2140
Location: Orange County, So Cal
Joined: April 5, 2000
Contributor
  Since: August 8, 2005
 I would think the P5 is worth the Dyn 20. Even though I liked the ACE better on my Linn, I don't think you'll look back and regret it.

Out of that list, probably the Dynavectors....., posted on November 7, 2009 at 22:50:31
Marc Bratton
Audiophile

Posts: 4581
Joined: June 15, 2000
 Especially the 20X. Have to say though, if you want a bang for the buck cart that betters what you're running now, my Ortofon 2M Blue NEVER loses its cool, no matter how intense or complex the music becomes. It keeps everything sorted out, in its place, and on cue. Very smooth too. It is extremely impressive for a $200 cart, but I think the 20X would probably beat it.

RE: New cartridge recommendations needed!, posted on November 7, 2009 at 21:58:48
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 11769
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
 I have the AT120E and wanted to try something "different". The high output MC Denon DL-160 came highly recommended to me by Opus 104 as I was looking for a more dynamic and "alive" sounding cartridge. The other benefit I hear is more detail overall and better defined lower frequencies in the bass area. I like the DL-160 a lot.

I recently picked up the DL-103R and it's a nice cartridge too but I'm not hearing the same level of improvement going from the DL-160 to the DL-103R as I did going from the AT120E to the DL-160. I've only had the DL-103R for about a week or so but still feel that the DL-160 provided the biggest step up for me. The DL-103R may be marginally better. Of course, that's what I'm hearing and others may notice more. YMMV

RE: New cartridge recommendations needed!, posted on November 9, 2009 at 14:45:42
Theron D
Audiophile

Posts: 429
Location: Baltimore
Joined: June 21, 2004
 I was thinking of going the same pathway as you. From a AT120E to Denon DL-160 and see what she's got. Plus it will be a first HOMC which the Rogue Stealth can handle.

RE: New cartridge recommendations needed!, posted on November 11, 2009 at 07:38:17
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 11769
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
 I think you'll like the DL-160. If nothing else, it is noticably "different" compared to the AT120E. Enjoy! ;-)

Of those, Dynavector..., posted on November 7, 2009 at 21:13:49
VynylTap
Audiophile

Posts: 1123
Location: USA - SouthEast
Joined: November 16, 2007
 but I would be remiss if I didn't mention how much I'm enjoying the higher end Nagaoka cartridges right now!


"I'll play it and tell you what it is later..." - Miles Davis
RE: New cartridge recommendations needed!, posted on November 7, 2009 at 20:30:01
flatmap
Audiophile

Posts: 112
Location: Pacific NW
Joined: June 5, 2008
 While I can't compare it to what you've been using, I've been running a Dynavector 20XL (via a Dynavector P75 phono pre) on my P3. It has been very satisfying -- one of those purchases where I've just turned to listening to music without thought of further upgrade. So, if you decide to go this way, I don't think you'll be disappointed.
RE: Ortofon Black, posted on November 7, 2009 at 18:56:03
Bry
Audiophile

Posts: 3227
Location: S. Florida
Joined: July 21, 2005
 I've had a 2M Black and I'm currently using a Bronze. I think they're great and I think the Bronze is a better value.

RE: New cartridge recommendations needed!, posted on November 7, 2009 at 18:43:14
apoman60612
Audiophile

Posts: 30
Joined: July 21, 2009
 High output ZYX Yatra.

Why?, posted on November 8, 2009 at 04:29:08
hukkfinn
Audiophile

Posts: 2831
Location: East Coast
Joined: July 19, 2002
 It would be nice to know what this cart does well -- it doesn't get a lot of discussion in here.

Hukk

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