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Optimum Tracking Force for Dynavector 20XL

74.103.206.49
Posted on November 7, 2009 at 11:32:26
stereo5
Audiophile

Posts: 113
Joined: June 22, 2008
 I have a VPI Scout with JMW9 arm. I will be installing a Dynavector 20XL low output mc cartridge tomorrow. What would be the optimum tracking force for this cartridge on my setup? I also am wondering about VTA, I have been told the cartridge sounds best with the tail down, is this correct?

Thank you!!!
"You lock the door and throw away the key, there's someone in my head but it's not me"
RE: Optimum Tracking Force for Dynavector 20XL, posted on November 7, 2009 at 19:29:37
Uncle Mike
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Posts: 1305
Location: Eastern Pa.
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 On my Scoutmaster w/JMW9sig I set tracking at 2g with a little leeway and run the arm flat.

1.9g on my 20XH, posted on November 7, 2009 at 16:09:39
wgallupe
Audiophile

Posts: 362
Location: Boston
Joined: November 7, 2002
 with arm level with a 180g record on the platter.

2.2 on mine., posted on November 7, 2009 at 13:50:53
JimK
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Location: Maple Grove, MN.
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Contributor
  Since: October 2, 2008
 But the "tail down, tail up" thing is all relative and very system dependent. I would start with a level arm, and then adjust up or down in small increments until you find the "sweet spot" for your particular cart. Mine just happens to be slightly tail-up, but YMMV, etc, etc.

Jim
RE: 2.2 on mine., posted on November 7, 2009 at 19:27:06
stereo5
Audiophile

Posts: 113
Joined: June 22, 2008
 I installed the cartridge, got the overhang right on the money. Set vtf at 2 grams and checked vta, stylus is parallel as it should be. For whatever reasons, the plastic piece on the bottom of the cartridge (where the cantelever goes in) is hitting the record, causing it to skip. I played around with vtf and weight but it still isn't right. What am I doing wrong? I have mounted over a dozen cartridges and never had problems like this. Advise Please???
"You lock the door and throw away the key, there's someone in my head but it's not me"
how are you measuring vtf?, posted on November 8, 2009 at 04:54:04
hukkfinn
Audiophile

Posts: 2830
Location: East Coast
Joined: July 19, 2002
 With a scale? Or by the tonearm's indicator?

If by tonearm, you may need to first calibrate the arm before its VTF gauge will read correctly. At least that is how my Rega arm works.

By the way the 20x carts have a new and an old version. The difference is the stylus. Is yours new? Best VTF differs between the old and new versions. Old was 1.9g, new is 2.1g (for me). So the recommendations you get here may not apply to the version that you bought.

If your 20x is old, that may also explain the dragging cart body. Let us know.

Hukk
RE: how are you measuring vtf?, posted on November 8, 2009 at 07:57:18
stereo5
Audiophile

Posts: 113
Joined: June 22, 2008
 I am using a Shure stylus force gauge. Not sure if the cartridge is new or old version, the cartridge body is threaded so you don't need nuts to secure it if that helps. I increased the weight to 2.2 grams and that seems to have helped, but on records that are even slightly warped, the bottom of cartridge drags on record. Please help!!!
"You lock the door and throw away the key, there's someone in my head but it's not me"
A word of caution..., posted on November 8, 2009 at 09:14:18
tketcham
Audiophile

Posts: 3049
Location: Washington State
Joined: March 21, 2005
 Some of those Shure gauges are made of ferrous metals that attract the cartridge to the platform. (And to those who say the newer ones aren't made of ferrous metals, I bought a new one and it was most definitely ferrous.) In severe cases the cantilever will get compressed up against the cartridge body as the platform gets pulled onto the cartridge. In other cases the cartridge is only partially attracted to the platform and can affect the weight balance, causing errors in VTF readings. This may or may not be the problem but you might want to get a digital stylus force gauge to verify. I'd recommend a digital gauge regardless, especially since the JMW-9 tone arm doesn't have a calibrated VTF counterweight so you can't be Shure (pun intended) what you're getting for VTF.

And as mentioned in other replies, sometimes the Dynavector 20XL cartridges either come with bad cantilever suspensions (I returned a bad one) or they get that way quicker than they should. This may or may not be the problem you have. My 20XL rides low at 1.8g but handles all but the most severe warps. And if it does bounce it's usually just the beginning of the groove near the lip. But it shouldn't be bottoming out at 2.0g with moderately warped records.

Food for thought anyway.

Tom

Did you buy it used?, posted on November 8, 2009 at 08:03:52
hukkfinn
Audiophile

Posts: 2830
Location: East Coast
Joined: July 19, 2002
 Sounds like your VTF is correct then.

First, you have the new version of this cart if the holes for the bolts on the sides are fully enclosed (i.e. the black plastic completely surrounds each bolt so it's literally screwing into a hole in the cart body). You have the older version if the bolts are only partly surrounded by the cart body.

Second, I have experience with the older 20x cartridges sagging after a year or so. The cantilever sort of collapses a little, and the cart body runs very near to -- or actually ON -- the LP.
I don't know if the newer 20x's do this. Mine so far have not. I consider it a defect. When this happens to a well-used cart, I don't know if Dyna will replace or repair, because when this happened to my 20x carts, they were so used that they were due for replacement anyway. Sorry I can't be of more help. But I am interested if you bought new -- if so, then you just send it right back.

Hukk

RE: Did you buy it used?, posted on November 8, 2009 at 08:25:56
stereo5
Audiophile

Posts: 113
Joined: June 22, 2008
 I must have the older version as the holes are drilled all the way through. I got the cartridge used for 250.00 as part of a deal when I bought a preamp that was set up for low output moving coil cartridge. I love the sound of the cartridge but I am unhappy with the occasional dragging on the record.
"You lock the door and throw away the key, there's someone in my head but it's not me"
sounds like the new version, posted on November 8, 2009 at 08:30:05
hukkfinn
Audiophile

Posts: 2830
Location: East Coast
Joined: July 19, 2002
 Old version has indents on the sides, not actual holes.

New version: looking down from the top of the cart, you will see full holes that completely surround the bolt.

RE: sounds like the new version, posted on November 8, 2009 at 08:42:28
stereo5
Audiophile

Posts: 113
Joined: June 22, 2008
 Its the new version then. What can I do??
"You lock the door and throw away the key, there's someone in my head but it's not me"
well....., posted on November 8, 2009 at 08:47:15
hukkfinn
Audiophile

Posts: 2830
Location: East Coast
Joined: July 19, 2002
 You could return it to the seller and demand your money back.

You could send it to Soundsmith in NY, which will take 12 weeks and cost $250 but you'll get back a better sounding cartridge.

Or you could call Mike Pranka (I believe he's at Toffco which is the U.S. Dyna distributor) (you can google these terms and get his number) and see if he's willing to do something for you.

Others may have other ideas?

Hukk

Tail up on my HO..., posted on November 7, 2009 at 15:49:55
pretzel_logic
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Posts: 1866
Location: NE Illinois
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Contributor
  Since: February 10, 2009
 And I'm set around 2 grams give or take what the Shure gauge is off. My HO sounds dead when I listen level or tail down but I'm also not all that tail up either. There was more of a problem with the 10x4 with VTA than the DV20.

I never found the DV20XL to be very picky concerning VTA, posted on November 7, 2009 at 14:55:13
Muzikmike
Reviewer

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Location: SoCentral PA
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Contributor
  Since: August 5, 2008
 I rode mine slightly down, but I didn't think it sounded different...if it did it was too slight for my old ears...and I'm 89.

Well, that's what the REAL AGE test says.


There is no such thing as too many records.
There is just too little room for them!
Yup. Very subtle differences. /nt\, posted on November 7, 2009 at 15:40:34
Opus 104
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"It was a dark and stormy night. I had taken a creative writing course." – Crow T. Robot, MST 3000.


It's not the music, Mikee...., posted on November 7, 2009 at 15:10:38
JimK
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Posts: 3616
Location: Maple Grove, MN.
Joined: April 18, 2008
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  Since: October 2, 2008
 I can't hear much of a difference either way when listening to "just" music, but for some reason I swear it's quieter (less clicks and pops) when played slightly tail-up. Am I fooling myself? Perhaps, but then again....

Hey! I sent you an email earlier today regarding your new cell number. Did you not get it?

Jim
Yoo gotz mayl. nt, posted on November 7, 2009 at 15:13:46
Muzikmike
Reviewer

Posts: 7320
Location: SoCentral PA
Joined: December 19, 2007
Contributor
  Since: August 5, 2008
 tn


There is no such thing as too many records.
There is just too little room for them!
Not since this morning...., posted on November 7, 2009 at 15:24:03
JimK
Audiophile

Posts: 3616
Location: Maple Grove, MN.
Joined: April 18, 2008
Contributor
  Since: October 2, 2008
 But all is well. I found your new number.

Jim
2 g on my JMW-9. /nt\, posted on November 7, 2009 at 11:50:36
Opus 104
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Posts: 2714
Location: Northern Virginia
Joined: June 13, 2008
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  Since: July 20, 2008

"It was a dark and stormy night. I had taken a creative writing course." – Crow T. Robot, MST 3000.


On my JMW10, 1.95, posted on November 7, 2009 at 11:46:34
Muzikmike
Reviewer

Posts: 7320
Location: SoCentral PA
Joined: December 19, 2007
Contributor
  Since: August 5, 2008
 but you can play with it if you have a digital gauge. I think the suggested weight is 2 +/- .2. Mine seemed to track quite well.


There is no such thing as too many records.
There is just too little room for them!

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