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Question on setting tracking force on SME V tonearm

68.116.85.146
Posted on November 6, 2009 at 00:23:12
junvel
Audiophile

Posts: 89
Location: so.California
Joined: August 23, 2003
 I noticed that when my dealer installed the cartridge on my SME V tonearm he just used a weighing scale and adjusted the balance thumbwheel till he arrived on the recommended
tracking force. He didn't use the the VTF dial . Is this the correct way?
TIA

You can do it either way........, posted on November 6, 2009 at 05:08:46
rgurney
Audiophile

Posts: 206
Location: Virginia
Joined: May 1, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 22, 2004
 statically or dynamically. I challenge anyone to actually hear a difference in a blind test. The people I spoke to at the SME factory can't hear a difference. According to them, dynamic balancing was designed back when cartridges were heavy, had low compliance, and had to try to track less than flat records. If I am not mistaken, the SME IV tonearms do not have a VTF dial, only using static balancing.

No!, posted on November 6, 2009 at 02:22:00
B.K.
Audiophile

Posts: 569
Location: Ireland
Joined: February 18, 2007
Contributor
  Since: March 12, 2007
 The method according to the instructions is to balance the arm using the thumb wheel and to set tracking force using the calibrated dial.

But some people believe that setting the VTF statically without using the VTF dial (as your dealer did) sounds better.

Can't say I ever noticed any difference.

The instructions with Grado Reference tonearm took the concept one step further, and recommended applying tracking force by a combination of static and dynamic adjustment.

Best regards,

BK
Is the dynamic VTF adjustment a continuous tension device?, posted on November 6, 2009 at 07:26:22
tketcham
Audiophile

Posts: 3049
Location: Washington State
Joined: March 21, 2005
 I read that to decrease VTF you reset the counterweight (to decrease VTF) and increase the tension back to the VTF setting you want. That implies a continuous tension setup rather than a fixed tension range. Is that correct?

Tom

RE: Is the dynamic VTF adjustment a continuous tension device?, posted on November 6, 2009 at 12:12:51
B.K.
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Posts: 569
Location: Ireland
Joined: February 18, 2007
Contributor
  Since: March 12, 2007
 I don't understand.

Do you mean on the Grado Reference tonearm?

You just balance the arm with the outrigger weight at a positive position.

EG for a 1.5g tracking forec, the arm is balanced with the rider weight at 0.5g. Then the rider weight is moved to the zero position and the arm is re-balanced using the spring force adjustment.

In this case, 0.5g is applied by the spring and -0.5g is applied by the weght. The required 1.5g tracking force is then set by moving the rider weight to 1.5g. This way the arm has 1.0g applied statically and 0.5g applied dynamically.

Best regards,

BK

I thought..., posted on November 6, 2009 at 18:40:47
tketcham
Audiophile

Posts: 3049
Location: Washington State
Joined: March 21, 2005
 You were talking about the SME tone arms. And I assume that setting VTF with the 309 is similar to the V?

I was trying to understand the mechanics of setting VTF adjustments after reading this sentence:

"When reducing VTF by opposite rotation of the wrench, move the balance weight slightly further than required so that the final adjustment is always made in the forward direction."

I take it to mean that the VTF adjustments are relative or continuous. (Perhaps a poor choice of terminology.) That is, the calibrations on the dial are for increments of additional VTF for the relative position that the counterweight was set. If the counterweight is set for zero (free float) then the increments are relative to zero. If the counterweight is moved slightly to allow for refinement in VTF as instructed, then the increments are relative to that position, ie, 1.5g.

So if you wanted a VTF of 1.5g and after setting VTF using the dial you actually measure 1.6g using a VTF guage, you'd move the counterweight back to where you might be at 1.4g and then you reset VTF to 1.5g using the increments on the dial.

Is that correct?

Or does it mean that you reset the counterweight to zero and move it slightly to have a minus VTF and then dial in 1.5g again, hoping that you end up with 1.5g this time.

Tom

RE: I thought..., posted on November 7, 2009 at 05:31:55
B.K.
Audiophile

Posts: 569
Location: Ireland
Joined: February 18, 2007
Contributor
  Since: March 12, 2007
 Right, I understand the question.

The VTF system on the SME 309 is similar to that on the series IV.

The SME series V is different to both, it has a calibrated dial for applying VTF on the side of the bearing housing similar to arms like the Linn Ittok etc. So VTF is applied dynamically using a spring.

The series IV and 309 don't have the calibrated dial on the side of the bearing housing; instead, VTF is applied statically, by moving the counterweight backwards and forwards. However, the thread on the screw which moves the counterweight backwards and forwards is calibrated so that a full turn gives 0.5g of VTF.

The extract from the manual that you referenced above relates to the effects of backlash in a screw adjustment.

LEt's say, the target is to set VTF of 1.25g. If the VTF dial is adjusted in one direction to increase the VTF to say 1.5g, and then adjusted it in the other direction by 0.25g (half a turn) aiming for a VTF of 1.25g, the result will be higher (say 1.35g), because there is some backlash in the screw when the direction is reversed.

To overcome this effect, VTF is always adjusted in positive steps, and in this way any backlash by a negative adjustment is cancelled by the subsequent positive adjustment.

Hope this explains it.

Best regards,

BK

RE: I thought..., posted on November 7, 2009 at 09:01:47
tketcham
Audiophile

Posts: 3049
Location: Washington State
Joined: March 21, 2005
 Perfect. I now have a clear picture of how VTF adjustments with the 309 works. Thanks, Brian.

Tom

RE: I thought..., posted on November 6, 2009 at 20:13:30
John Elison
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Posts: 10894
Location: Central Kentucky
Joined: December 20, 2000
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  Since: January 29, 2004
 Setting VTF on the 309 is done with the counterweight only. There is no VTF dial. There are no VTF numbers. The counterweight slides on rails and is controlled by a screw. One full turn of the screw increments VTF by 0.5-grams. If you are using a VTF scale, simply adjust the counterweight position for the desire VTF as measured on the scale. If you have no scale, you must balance the arm and then turn the screw one full turn for every 0.5-grams of VTF you wish to apply. After achieving the desired setting, there is a locking lever to secure the weight from moving.

The SME V has a similar counterweight that slides on rails, but it also has a separate VTF dial that applies torque to the arm via a spring. Set the VTF dial to zero and balance the tonearm with the counterweight. When perfectly balanced, lock the weight in place. Then turn the dial to the desired VTF. If you have a scale, you can check the VTF. If it is not exactly where you want, simply turn the dial to get the desired reading on the scale. If you want the number on the dial to match the scale reading exactly, set the dial to the desired VTF and adjust the counterweight until your scale indicates the same VTF. Lock the counterweight in place.

I have a SME V and the VTF dial on my tonearm is very accurate when the arm is perfectly balanced. It agrees with my digital scale to within a couple of hundredths of a gram.

If you are still confused about setting VTF on SME tonearms, the Vinyl Engine website has user manuals that you can download. They are in the Library.

Best regards,
John Elison

RE: I thought..., posted on November 7, 2009 at 10:03:59
rccc@wildblue.net
Audiophile

Posts: 164
Location: CA
Joined: February 17, 2008
 Hi John, good info on the V, thanks. Do you know how the antiskate works on the V? On mine it doesnt seem to matter where I adjust it, as an example if I zero balance the arm it doesnt move either in or out (towards label) whether anti skate is max or zero. It also doesnt seem to effect bias when using the Hi Fi test record which seems to show both channels equal. On my 309 there was a very noticable change when adjusting anti skate with the arm at zero balance as it would drift either toward or away from the label as adjusted through its range. I leave it set to the VTF of the cartridge and all seems fine but it seems odd that the arm doesnt respond to the adjustments the way the 309 did.
Thanks, Rick

Your antiskating is broken. It needs to be repaired. (nt), posted on November 7, 2009 at 13:27:40
John Elison
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Posts: 10894
Location: Central Kentucky
Joined: December 20, 2000
Contributor
  Since: January 29, 2004

RE: Your antiskating is broken. It needs to be repaired. (nt), posted on November 7, 2009 at 17:08:57
rccc@wildblue.net
Audiophile

Posts: 164
Location: CA
Joined: February 17, 2008
 Thanks John, Is there anyone in the states that works on these arms? Do you know by what means the system works? I mean spring, magnet,or?

RE: Your antiskating is broken. It needs to be repaired. (nt), posted on November 7, 2009 at 18:37:16
John Elison
Audiophile

Posts: 10894
Location: Central Kentucky
Joined: December 20, 2000
Contributor
  Since: January 29, 2004
 Unfortunately, I don't really know anything about it. Perhaps B.K. knows how it works.

Good luck,
John Elison

RE: I thought..., posted on November 7, 2009 at 09:06:07
tketcham
Audiophile

Posts: 3049
Location: Washington State
Joined: March 21, 2005
 Thanks, John.

A while back, when I was first looking into purchasing a 309, I asked for a digital copy (pdf file) of the 309 manual from SME and they sent one the next day! I was still a bit confused about the instructions in the manual and between you and Brian, "I can see clearly now". Setting up the 'arm will be a snap.

Tom

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