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EAR 864 & EAR 88PB Phono Stage Comparison & Dilemma

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Posted on November 4, 2009 at 17:34:41
XLR8OR
Audiophile

Posts: 311
Location: Sydney
Joined: August 30, 2005
 I own an EAR 88PB phono stage and I’m currently auditioning an EAR 864 preamp in my system for a few weeks.

With my Clearaudio Concerto (first generation) MOMC cartridge, I’m finding to prefer the sound from the 864’s phono stage to that of my 88PB phono stage. With the 864’s phono stage, I can clearly hear more low-end bass registers (although darker sounding if anything in comparison to the 88PB) and greater depth in sound stage. Perhaps the only disadvantage of the 864’s phono stage in comparison to the 88PB phono stage is in the top end. The top end seems to sound slightly constricted and not as coloured and warm as that of the 88PB. The 88PB hooked into the 864’s line stage sounds terrible with a definite weakness in the bass.

With my MOMC cartridge, I have the 88PB set on the 40-ohm load impedance tap, which is identical to the 864’s phono output tap. There is something about the magic of the phono stage (3 x 12AX7’s) of the 864 running through its line stage (12AX7 and 12AU7), which I cannot quite match with the 88PB hooked up directly into my ARC power amp. The 88PB sounds warmer and more accurate but at the same time sterile and lean in comparison to the weight, transparency, liveliness and depth of sound stage on offer from the 864’s phono stage.

Has anybody evaluated these two EAR phono stages side-by-side? Has anyone tube rolled the 864’s phono and line stage sections to obtain a bit more warmth out of the top end?

Your comments would be gratefully appreciated. Thanks in advance.

RE: EAR 864 & EAR 88PB Phono Stage Comparison & Dilemma, posted on November 4, 2009 at 19:34:40
DanWKW
Audiophile

Posts: 468
Location: Hong Kong
Joined: June 17, 2009



Dear XLR8OR,
Assuming you are using stock tubes(PCC88 & 12AX7) in EAR 88PB & 864.
Assuming EAR 88PB's volume no need to exceed 12 o'clock when directly pushing ARC power. (Note: using EAR 88PB as pre-amp may NOT work in all systems though I found it is my cup of tea)

I have auditioned EAR 912 and 88PB as writing some audio reviews a year ago. I have some ideas about 864 though not under a test environment. Here are what I found:
1) EAR 912 phono section would "generally" outperform 88PB(using 912 line stage) especially if I couldn't tailor-make extra short, high quality ICs. I believe you have similar situations(if not problems) when using 88PB as phono hooked into 864's line pre-amp...
2) EAR PCC88 amp circuits sounds more accurate, better resolution, have more high end air, more dynamics than its 12AX7's. Note: EAR 88PB are FETs and PCC88 hybrid circuits and totally different from its 12AX7 circuits.
3) In order to get best results from using 88PB pre-amp, I had/have to do some tube rolling. In my system, the first 3 stock PCC88 have been replaced by Telefunken whilst the last one remains the same. Tim told me in August those are NOS Ei productions. Different brands of tube sounds different.
4) If you're looking for more "transparency" at the top, better high frequency extensions, etc, you may try some Siemens E83CC or Tele ECC803.
5) I don't really understand "The 88PB sounds warmer and more accurate but at the same time sterile and lean in comparison to the weight, transparency, liveliness and depth of sound stage on offer from the 864’s phono stage." But it doesn't matter as I believe you will have different results with different gears, say, if you have Benz Micro Ebony(but not Concerto), Conrad Johnson power amp(but not ARC)...right;)?
6) I agree "tube rolling 864" is the best option for you at this moment.

Best regards
Dan



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Rolling PCC88 tubes, posted on November 4, 2009 at 22:57:10
XLR8OR
Audiophile

Posts: 311
Location: Sydney
Joined: August 30, 2005
 Dan,

I also own an EAR Acute CD player that uses 2 x PCC88 tubes. The default TdP Ei PCC88 tubes are plagued with problems including very bad mismatched sounding triodes and microphony issues. I have tube rolled the PCC88's in the Acute and have found the Mullard DJ0 Blackburn 1970's A-frame types so far to sound the best with a nice sparkle up the top and in the midrange. If I hook up the Acute direct into my power amp, I get a richer, transparent sound from top to bottom but their seems to also be some leanness and dullness in the midrange. In other words there is no midrange bloom and the sound is very neutral from top to bottom. Through the EAR 864's line stage the Acute rectifies these issues sounding very lively and warm with great bass. The 88PB doesn't exhibit the same trait through the 864's line stage and the sound is greatly compromised, most particularly in the bass region. Connected direct into the power amp, the 88PB sounds better, but as I mentioned before it sounds lean and sterile. I suspect the PCC88 tubes are exhibiting this phenomenon, lacking the much needed midrange warmth.

An interesting observation also is that all three EAR units (Acute, 88PB and 864) use output transformers at the final stage of their circuit design topology to step up the voltage. I very much admire this attribute of EAR preamp units, as I believe it helps greatly improve the sound.

RE: Rolling PCC88 tubes, posted on November 5, 2009 at 01:03:42
DanWKW
Audiophile

Posts: 468
Location: Hong Kong
Joined: June 17, 2009
 Mullard DJ0 Blackburn? Is it PCC88/7DJ8? Using 2 or 3 tubes in Acute CDP? I have never come across any PCC88/7DJ8 by Mullard Blackburn productions. It seems you prefer midrange bloom to neutrality(or linearity?). I believe Mullard would be your cup of tea, then.

I also buy the ideas of using output transformers like those source or pre-amp equipments produced by EAR and Audio Note. These tube designs usually deliver more organic, energetic, full-bodied/sized sonic presentations(all with positive meanings). I like to mate them with fast, tight, transparent solid state power amps driving full-range, floor standing, 3/4-way monitor speakers.

Tim de Paravicini told me some of his designs could directly drive power amps, of course, including both Acute CD and 88PB. I have heard Acute before. I like its sonic performance but I don't listen much to CD these days nor will I invest more on it in near future. If it could combine the look of an Esoteric VDRS CDP and the sonic performance of an EAR Acute CDP, I may definitely consider buying...

I spent quite some time searching for the "matching" ICs between EAR 88PB and my power amp, be it RCA or XLR, silver or copper or hybrid, solid core or multi-stranded, etc. I now use VDH Orchid as my reference. Using an IC with a bit higher impedance(than the one for your 864 in your case) when driving power amp with EAR 88PB is my choice.

Anyway, vinyls, tubes and transformers are best companions to my ears. How about have a glass of "Grange", too?





Remember there are a lot of people around the world, who are suffering from poverty and diseases, in need of our help. Please save some for them, find any reliable organizations and donate to them.

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