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Line contact for DJ use?

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Posted on May 12, 2012 at 02:22:37

Marky P
Audiophile

Posts: 652
Location: Bedfordshire
Joined: June 19, 2003

Hi,

I'm a DJ who specialises in spinning vinyl. Don't do scratching, or anything like that, just spin 60's - 90's stuff for weddings, parties etc. Currently, I'm using a pair of Citronic PD-1 mk 3 turntables with Stanton Diablo carts, but these carts have conical styli and distortion and sibilance is quite noticeable. I was thinking of getting a pair of Ortofon concordes and shoving a OM40 line contact stylus on them to improve performance. Just wondering if LC styli are suitable in a DJ situation, especially with back cueing. Any ideas?
Marky P

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RE: Line contact for DJ use?

Damián

02:30:00 05/13/12

RE: Line contact for DJ use?

WOStantonCS100

17:39:14 05/12/12

RE: Line contact for DJ use?

Mike27

12:59:23 05/12/12

...

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RE: Line contact for DJ use?

Damián

02:30:00 05/13/12

RE: Line contact for DJ use?

WOStantonCS100

17:39:14 05/12/12

RE: Line contact for DJ use?

Mike27

12:59:23 05/12/12

RE: Line contact for DJ use?

Bry

06:43:49 05/12/12

RE: Line contact for DJ use?

Marky P

11:57:44 05/13/12

RE: Line contact for DJ use?

vintageperson

05:46:06 05/15/12

RE: Line contact for DJ use?, posted on May 12, 2012 at 06:43:49

Bry
Audiophile

Posts: 4756
Location: S. Florida
Joined: July 21, 2005

You shouldn't be having sibilance issues with the conical on a typical LP. That indicates something else is amiss (VTF, anti-skate, stylus wear, cartridge defect, etc..). In fact, usable alignment should be easier to achieve with those styli.

An elliptical can provide a sonic improvement, though. Find an affordable hi-fi (non-DJ) cart like an Ortofon OM5 or 10, or a Shure M97XE, or Audio Technica AT95E and try that first. I'd avoid anything "sharper" than elliptical (like line contact) if you're going to be back-cueing. Also, I'd pick up a stylus scale for setting VTF instead of relying on the counterweight markings.

RE: Line contact for DJ use?, posted on May 12, 2012 at 12:59:23

Mike27
Audiophile

Posts: 254
Joined: October 31, 2006

I'd recommend against it. The only times I've cue-burned a record (well, since about age 12, with a worn-out GE RPX) were when using OM-30 or -40 styli. I haven't had any problems with the elliptical OM-20.

Also, the -40 is ruthlessly revealing. You may find that it cures sibilance on some records while exacerbating poor mastering on others. Don't get me wrong, I love them for listening, and for archiving. But the OM-20 doesn't give up much in the way of detail, while offering a smoother presentation for harsh-sounding discs. Not to mention replacements are much cheaper should you have any unfortunate incident...

I suspect not too many audiophiles show up to critique the sound at a typical wedding anyway. Most I've attended, the sound is crap. My own PA speakers are nowhere near as refined as the old Paradigms in my front room at home. But I commend your efforts to improve the experience for your clients. Or just for your own pleasure, whatever...

Best,
Mike

RE: Line contact for DJ use?, posted on May 12, 2012 at 17:39:14

WOStantonCS100
Manufacturer

Posts: 186
Location: East Coast
Joined: January 4, 2012

This is not a setup issue. I'm not surprised you're having sibilance issues. This is quite common with these carts even with conical styli. The cantilevers are generally tree trunks and the suspensions of these carts, like the Concorde and the Stanton Track/Groove/Discmaster cartridges, are notoriously stiff. This is great for turntablism; but, works horrors for resolving detail such as cymbals, high brass and string notes and, of course, vocal sibilance. Adding insane amounts of VTF or cranking the anti-skate won't solve the real issue. (I own two Ortofon Concorde DJ Pro S and several Stanton Groovemasters and Trackmasters. However, for my purposes, I have them retipped rendering them no longer any good for DJ use; but, perfect for "serious" listening/transcribing.)

In your situation, I would recommend a different cartridge all together. I would not under any circumstances use a line contact, shibata or the like for back cueing. These cantilevers are a lot thinner and generally more fragile. The suspensions are much different, as well.

I agree. I would not using anything beyond an elliptical and that only if it's like a .4 x .7 Even then, I'd try to do as little back cueing as possible. IMHO, the real answer is in getter a "hi-fi" cartridge with a conical stylus as opposed to a "DJ" cartridge. Afterwards, your major concern will be isolation of the turntable(s) so as to avoiding "bumping" a cartridge that tracks at a much lower weight.

I haven't used them, yet, but the Shure M44G (lower output version) may be the ticket considering the specs and your intended use. It has a high output, a .7 spherical stylus yet tracks at only .75 to 1.5 grams, which is in "hi-fi" territory.

Good luck. Hope some of this helps. Cheers!

RE: Line contact for DJ use?, posted on May 13, 2012 at 02:30:00

Damián
Audiophile

Posts: 2171
Joined: December 20, 2002

Just as a cheap test, maybe you could try this?

http://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?p=235816

If that stylus fits then any styli for the 500-series (and Pickering V15) should. So you'd have quite a few ellipticals to choose from that might help tame sibilance and tracking issues. One thing though, if the volume/bass is too loud you might get skipping with a stylus tracking at 1.5 grams or less if the 'table is not properly isolated.

Having said all of that, the angle of the stylus grip on the picture on that thread looks off to me - the stylus is taking a huge nosedive and that's bad news with an elliptical. Maybe he just has his arm height set improperly...

RE: Line contact for DJ use?, posted on May 13, 2012 at 11:57:44
Marky P Audiophile Posts: 652 Location: Bedfordshire Joined: June 19, 2003	Thanks for all the advice. I think i'm probably being too picky with my DJ set up, trying to compare it to my hi-fi set up. No one has complained about sibilance at any of my gigs, in fact most venues cause so many sonic problems that sibilance is probably the least of my problems. Marky P

RE: Line contact for DJ use?, posted on May 15, 2012 at 05:46:06
vintageperson Audiophile Posts: 156 Joined: November 11, 2000	Do not recommend line contacts or ellipticals for back cueing. Backcueing is hard on cantilevers and line contacts will cue burn records. Buy the best conical tip you can find. Those will hold up to back cueing and not cue burn records if handled carefully. This is why you find conical tips used in broadcasting use.

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