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Story on another site: Carbon fiber brushes cause "microscratches" and thus should not be used. Opinions?

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Posted on May 8, 2012 at 08:39:53

Elizabeth
Audiophile

Posts: 10065
Location: Great Lakes Region
Joined: December 20, 2000

I personally have to say I use a nice carbon fiber brush and never noted any markings on the Lps so treated.
But some folks are claiming the Lps are damaged by using a carbon fiber brush. That they can 'see' microscratches on the Lps after use of a carbon fiber brush.
Just wondered what folks here think.

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RE: Story on another site: Carbon fiber brushes cause "microscratches" and thus should not be used. Opinions?

IEaudiodude

09:00:46 05/10/12

Of course, many of the same people...

Doug G.

12:01:50 05/12/12

RE: Of course, many of the same people...

Mercury Boy

21:20:54 05/12/12

...

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RE: Story on another site: Carbon fiber brushes cause "microscratches" and thus should not be used. Opinions?

IEaudiodude

09:00:46 05/10/12

Of course, many of the same people...

Doug G.

12:01:50 05/12/12

RE: Of course, many of the same people...

Mercury Boy

21:20:54 05/12/12

No problems with my Audioquest or generic garage-a-records knockoff brushes. (nt)

soundnut

18:53:29 05/09/12

It's true with some brushes.

jsm

18:11:46 05/08/12

i've not seen any damage from CF brushes

hifitommy

17:53:03 05/08/12

RE: Story on another site: Carbon fiber brushes cause "microscratches" and thus should not be used. Opinions?

amioutaline?

13:14:17 05/08/12

Just think what a carbon crystal being dragged through the grooves would do.

Enophile

12:44:48 05/08/12

Of course, a stylus is polished so damage is minimal. nt

Doug G.

11:57:26 05/12/12

Well played, sir.

ToddM

08:07:07 05/10/12

And all this time I have been paying my record monger to microscratch my LPs! nt

viridian

12:40:02 05/08/12

Opus 104

12:00:14 05/08/12

Actually, it's not...

Doug G.

16:30:46 05/08/12

Sorry. If it takes a microscope to see these inaudible "scratches"

Opus 104

17:16:42 05/08/12

It doesn't take a microscope...

Doug G.

11:50:09 05/12/12

I agree with Opus

richardl

13:39:06 05/11/12

Well, nothing is really being said about audibility...

Doug G.

11:53:51 05/12/12

'see' microscratches?...

musetap

10:25:23 05/08/12

Mike82ARP

09:50:05 05/08/12

RE: Story on another site: Carbon fiber brushes cause "microscratches" and thus should not be used. Opinions?

rebop

08:41:33 05/08/12

RE: Story on another site: Carbon fiber brushes cause "microscratches" and thus should not be used. Opinions?, posted on May 8, 2012 at 08:41:33
rebop	Never seen any myself, but it's not like I tried to look with a microscope. It's important not to apply any addition pressure when using a carbon fiber brush.

I doubt it.., posted on May 8, 2012 at 09:50:05

Mike82ARP
Audiophile

Posts: 6992
Location: The no state tax state!!!
Joined: August 13, 2001

The fibers are so small. That they could scratch the relatively soft vinyl and leave a permanent imprint is unlikely. Additionally, that a stylus even be able to read these scratches seems unlikely, too.

http://www.petapixel.com/2010/03/17/vinyl-records-at-1000x-m

'see' microscratches?..., posted on May 8, 2012 at 10:25:23

musetap
Audiophile

Posts: 11212
Location: San Francisco
Joined: July 8, 2003
Contributor
Since: January 28, 2004

You can see much with a magnifying glass or microscope and determine if it's actual damage and what
that damage might be.

I seriously doubt a carbon fiber brush is going to cause any damage that can be seen with the naked eye,
and that any perceived damage is actual damage that might affect playback (or value for those concerned
with that aspect).

"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" - Michael McClure

Major BS. /nt\, posted on May 8, 2012 at 12:00:14
Opus 104 Audiophile Posts: 9335 Location: Northern Virginia Joined: June 13, 2008 Contributor Since: July 20, 2008	Opus 104

And all this time I have been paying my record monger to microscratch my LPs! nt, posted on May 8, 2012 at 12:40:02
viridian Audiophile Posts: 2451 Location: Portland, Oregon Joined: May 26, 2005 Contributor Since: February 1, 2012	nt

Just think what a carbon crystal being dragged through the grooves would do., posted on May 8, 2012 at 12:44:48
Enophile Audiophile Posts: 24342 Location: Northern Californistan Joined: October 15, 2005 Contributor Since: August 5, 2012	;D Add this to the lexicon of crap file, along with only being allowed to play an LP once in 24 hours or that playing LP's mastered from digital originals will crack your turntable bearing.

RE: Story on another site: Carbon fiber brushes cause "microscratches" and thus should not be used. Opinions?, posted on May 8, 2012 at 13:14:17

amioutaline?
Audiophile

Posts: 2999
Location: Great Smoky Mountains
Joined: August 29, 2008
Contributor
Since: December 29, 2011

I think anytime you rub something (stop smirking, Elizabeth) it gets changed: scratched, burnished, de-lustred; whatever.

Something built to take a diamond stylus at thousand of Lbs./sq. inch pressure, tho', how is it going to be damaged simply by light brushing?

The true danger, I feel, and one I try to be careful about is not trapping debris between the brush (actually I use MoFi pads) and the record surface.

Actually, it's not..., posted on May 8, 2012 at 16:30:46
Doug G. Audiophile Posts: 843 Location: Upper Midwest Joined: September 21, 2005	I have seen the scratches myself. It looks like more of a haze on the vinyl the scratches are so fine. But they are there.

Sorry. If it takes a microscope to see these inaudible "scratches", posted on May 8, 2012 at 17:16:42
Opus 104 Audiophile Posts: 9335 Location: Northern Virginia Joined: June 13, 2008 Contributor Since: July 20, 2008	then as far as I'm concerned, they do not exist. Opus 104

i've not seen any damage from CF brushes, posted on May 8, 2012 at 17:53:03
hifitommy Audiophile Posts: 12280 Location: shaky sylmar calif, orig from buffalo ny Joined: June 9, 2000	perhaps it makes a diff which one is used. i have an old RS brush that has more bristles than the recoton branded one i also have, neither leaves any scratches. i had heard this drivel before and never have seen any evidence supporting it. maybe one of the respected magazines could actually do a controlled test that would either put this to rest or reveal which brushes to avoid. ...regards...tr

It's true with some brushes., posted on May 8, 2012 at 18:11:46

jsm
Audiophile

Posts: 1868
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: October 28, 2000

I've found it's easy to get microscratches with the Hunt. You just rub with light to moderate pressure in the dead wax area and look with a bright light. (The dead wax area is a good place to run tests on anything you rub a record with, as any scratches are easy to see.) That said, I doubt those tiny scratches would have any affect on record play. They are far too small to be picked up by a stylus. But I don't like the idea of putting any scratches on a record, audible or not. I cannot detect any scratches from the Audioquest brush.

Joe

PS: Perhaps I am overly sensitive about tiny scratches. I've worked for years in optics production, and we are always checking surfaces for scratches. The very fine ones are called "sleaks" in the optical business.

No problems with my Audioquest or generic garage-a-records knockoff brushes. (nt), posted on May 9, 2012 at 18:53:29
soundnut Audiophile Posts: 3855 Location: Iowa Joined: May 7, 2004	..

Well played, sir., posted on May 10, 2012 at 08:07:07
ToddM Audiophile Posts: 1328 Location: Atlanta, USA Joined: May 15, 2001 Contributor Since: June 13, 2005	Isn't that supposed to be safer than a sapphire?

RE: Story on another site: Carbon fiber brushes cause "microscratches" and thus should not be used. Opinions?, posted on May 10, 2012 at 09:00:46
IEaudiodude Audiophile Posts: 2311 Location: So Cal Joined: February 11, 2010	Some folks worry way to much about things you don't need to worry to much about, it must be hell going through life being that anal !

I agree with Opus, posted on May 11, 2012 at 13:39:06
richardl Audiophile Posts: 2682 Joined: September 5, 2002	I have been using a CF brush for ten years or more before every play and if the record was bought new, it doesn't make noise. There is nothing else that can get that little bit of dust off everytime before you play than a CF brush.

It doesn't take a microscope..., posted on May 12, 2012 at 11:50:09
Doug G. Audiophile Posts: 843 Location: Upper Midwest Joined: September 21, 2005	You can see the hazy scratches in good lighting. Doug

Well, nothing is really being said about audibility..., posted on May 12, 2012 at 11:53:51
Doug G. Audiophile Posts: 843 Location: Upper Midwest Joined: September 21, 2005	but the scratches are there. I can't see marring good record surfaces. And there is a better brush than CF brushes for removing dust anyway. The original Discwasher brushes (D3 and D4). Doug

Of course, a stylus is polished so damage is minimal. nt, posted on May 12, 2012 at 11:57:26
Doug G. Audiophile Posts: 843 Location: Upper Midwest Joined: September 21, 2005	nt

Of course, many of the same people..., posted on May 12, 2012 at 12:01:50
Doug G. Audiophile Posts: 843 Location: Upper Midwest Joined: September 21, 2005	who would gasp in horror if the paper sleeve left any marks on the vinyl are saying they don't care if a CF brush leaves any scratches. That's how political audiophilia has become. Doug

RE: Of course, many of the same people..., posted on May 12, 2012 at 21:20:54

Mercury Boy

I see scratches from sleeves and my carbon brush all the time. They are easy to see under white LED light and even ordinary yellow light. If people don't see them it does not mean they are not there.

That said, I have seen some disks are resistant to the scratching and others are easily scratched. There does not seem to be any hard and fast rule here either, though it seems the softer formulations used by Pallas have a greater tendancy to scratch than harder formulations used by Optimal and RTI, for example

In the end, I don't care about the scratches. My collection is worth ten cents to anyone else and I am never going to sell my records anyway. They are there to listen to - not to be admired in mint condition.

I am a music lover, not a record collector. Whilst I take exceptionally good care of my records and they are all visually flawed, this does not effect the sound in any way.

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