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Sony "Mac Killer" vs. McIntosh

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Posted on October 28, 2009 at 15:24:38
Phil D
Dealer

Posts: 1148
Location: Cincinnati
Joined: March 12, 2007



I have a couple of Sony receivers and an amp that are called "The Mac Killers" as they were designed to sound as good, if not better, than the McIntosh gear of the day.

I have been listening to my Sony TA-1150 and I am more impressed each time I power that amp on. The amp just sounds so natural.

Has anyone ever compared a Mac piece against the Sony "Mac Killers"?

I have asked, make that challenged, a buddy of mine who just spent thousands on some mac gear and I really think the Sony will hold its own and maybe even win out.

What say you?

RE: Sony "Mac Killer" vs. McIntosh, posted on October 31, 2009 at 08:49:56
Tadlo
Audiophile

Posts: 1216
Location: midwest
Joined: March 8, 2003
 As a result of this thread I decided to take my STR7045 out of storage and put it in my office, in place of a Denon PMA520, with a pair of B&W DM1600 speakers. I had forgotten how good the Sony sounds--very natural, warm, and transparent.

RE: Sony "Mac Killer" vs. McIntosh, posted on October 29, 2009 at 07:44:13
AudioSoul
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Posts: 1497
Location: north central AZ
Joined: July 9, 2005
Contributor
  Since: September 24, 2009
I noticed that amp has a slider volume control. I was always told that sliders were not very accurate for that purpose. Does anyone know if that is true?......

RE: Sony "Mac Killer" vs. McIntosh, posted on October 29, 2009 at 13:24:01
GRH
Audiophile

Posts: 263
Location: CT
Joined: March 22, 2004
 I used a TA-1150 all through college and still have it. I do find the slider to be more difficult at lower volumes which wasn't a problem then! :)

Gary

RE: Sony "Mac Killer" vs. McIntosh, posted on October 29, 2009 at 09:34:15
Brian Levy
Audiophile

Posts: 919
Location: Toronto
Joined: June 5, 2000
 No better or worse then rotary controls. They can tend to accuulate dirt faster. Subjectively, I do not like the looks as well as a rotary control. If you think about it a lot of stduio gear use them so can not be all that bad, at least if the control is decent.

RE: Slider volume control, posted on October 29, 2009 at 09:25:04
Phil D
Dealer

Posts: 1148
Location: Cincinnati
Joined: March 12, 2007
 I have noticed two things:

One, when compared to a rotary pot, the slider does seem to be less accurate. One most vintage gear, if I turn the volume up to the 10:00 O'clock position, the volume is about as loud as I can take it. On the slider, to get to the same level, it needs to be at about the 60% up level.

Second, and I find this interesting, is that from zero to 60% up, the slider is perfectly silent. Once it goes higher, the static from a dirty control is heard. I assume this is because it has never been turned up this high before.

And even at that level, the sound is just incredible, once you let go of the slider and the static stops.
RE: Slider volume control, posted on October 30, 2009 at 08:02:41
gymwear5@hotmail.com
Manufacturer

Posts: 1219
Joined: April 10, 2002
 As a person that runs a mixer from time to time, there is no particular difference in a siding vs. rotating variable resistor. A stereo control is just as difficult to make in either format, as well, since channel tracking is important. I've never seen a stepped attenuator (resistor ladder) in a slider format yet rotating format stepped attenuators are popular in higher end home audio equipment.

RE: Sony "Mac Killer" vs. McIntosh, posted on October 29, 2009 at 05:29:32
LousyTourist
Audiophile

Posts: 1237
Location: Frigid Minnesnowta
Joined: August 14, 2006
 I dragged my Sony TA-5650 the other week. It was gone over a year or two ago by echowars with caps, new bias diodes, the full monty.

Unplugged my tube preamp and 300B mono amps, and put the Sony in place.

Been listening for weeks now, and I'm in a real quandary, whether to sell the tube gear and keep the Sony or sell the Sony and keep the tubes.

This Sony would be the big brother of the model I owned when I was young, the TA-365, which I had for many, many years and sold a decade ago for the princely sum of $35. During the whole period I owned that unit I never contemplated upgrading.

The political problem of mankind is to combine three things: economic efficiency, social justice and individual liberty.
-- John Maynard Keynes
V-Fet?, posted on October 29, 2009 at 09:27:18
Phil D
Dealer

Posts: 1148
Location: Cincinnati
Joined: March 12, 2007
 I believe your amp is one of Sony's V-FET based designs...I'd keep that one!

RE: oh yes, v-fet, posted on October 30, 2009 at 07:39:37
LousyTourist
Audiophile

Posts: 1237
Location: Frigid Minnesnowta
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 that's the whole point.


The political problem of mankind is to combine three things: economic efficiency, social justice and individual liberty.
-- John Maynard Keynes
RE: Sony "Mac Killer" vs. McIntosh, posted on October 28, 2009 at 18:17:12
Michael Samra
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Location: saginaw michigan
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Contributor
  Since: June 24, 2005
 Phil
in stock configuration,the sony could very well sound as good as the mac however,I have learned from Mcshane thru the years that updating the weak points of a vintage amp no matter what the brand is,dramatically improves it to better than when it was new,'
Just putting in muse caps,a better ground scheme,newer filter caps that are low esr and high temp, and adding a low value film or oil cap to areas of regulation where there is no common element,greatly improves these amps.
This is the only way I would make a comparison because many of those amps are well into their 30s and 40s.

If the power supply waveform isn't pretty,neither is the sound in most cases.
RE: Sony "Mac Killer" vs. McIntosh, posted on October 28, 2009 at 17:40:02
Brian Levy
Audiophile

Posts: 919
Location: Toronto
Joined: June 5, 2000
 Sony made products to establish themselves as the McIntosh of Japan but more to challenge Marantz with whom the company was in a battle with. They wanted to establish themselves as above any of the Japanese products then being brought into the US and easily did so with their first units, especially those with the smooth knobs.

Of particular importance was the STR 6060FW that was built to near McIntosh and Fisher standards (yes, Fisher receivers back then with the US made units were almost as good as Mc in quality of design and construction). The 6060 went up against the 1700 and was so close in sound Mc owners looking for a 2nd unit or persons lookin for the quality and sound of a Mc but could not afford the boat would walk out with the 6060. The 6120 and 6200 receivers went head to head very successfully against the 1900. Likewise the STC-7000 compared very favorable to the MX and knocked the heck out of the Marantz 24. The ST-5000 tuner was good enough to be a decent alternative to the MR 77 and even the MR78.

Going head to head, the Mc generally had a more refined sound, slightly less edge and more authority where the Sony was slightly more typically SS sounding though they were more tubelike than most of the other imports.

I have a STR6060FW and STR6120. I also have a Mc system comprised of the C28, MC2105 and MC250 and MR77. When I got the 6060 I subbed it on the Bozaks and though not quite the Mc it was decent enough that I did not get the usual Mc withdrawal pains that usually happened within weeks of subing something in place of the Mc. That is saying a lot when I'm comparing the TOTL Mc gear from that era to the Sony but, it was not unexpected as I sold both Sony amd Mc during that period. The STR6120 has more of a SS signature and replaced the 6060 as the totl of Sony receivers. Though not quite as high a quality in a few ways, there are things that make it outstanding such and even better in other ways. Most who own both the 6060 and 6120 or the successor to the 6120, the 6200 prefer the 6120 and 6200 over the 6060. As much as I like the 6120, in some ways I prefer the sound of the 6060 on my speakers and with my music.

I do not have 1st hand experience with the TA-1150 so not sure how it stacks up. Given the price differences for the Sonys and Mc from that period, I'm sure for many that the quality of sound inprovement may not warrant the added cost, law od diminishing returns kicks in. Also, the differences can be somewhat masked by the quality of source, speakers and system synergy.

I do think on a scale of quality for dollar spent on balance provided a person is not looking for the best of the best, the Sonys from that period probably are the best and do recommend them highly.

RE: Sony "Mac Killer" vs. McIntosh, posted on October 29, 2009 at 06:54:54
Tadlo
Audiophile

Posts: 1216
Location: midwest
Joined: March 8, 2003
 How does the STR7045 fit into the mix? I have one that I paid $5 for at a garage sale.

RE: Sony "Mac Killer" vs. McIntosh, posted on October 30, 2009 at 07:26:07
cornerklipsch
Audiophile

Posts: 314
Location: ontario
Joined: January 11, 2004
 ive heard the sony 7065 with Large Advents and was very impressed
its my favorite of all the Sony recievers .
Ive also heard this same unit connected to Klipschorns, a very different experience but very clean.
RE: Sony "Mac Killer" vs. McIntosh, posted on October 29, 2009 at 09:30:28
Brian Levy
Audiophile

Posts: 919
Location: Toronto
Joined: June 5, 2000
 It is the successor to the 6045 and is towards the bottom of the lineup in terms of models. It is also several years newer and shows more of the typical progression of changes in circuit engineering the production engineering. Not up to the likes of the 60x0, 6100 and 6200 or 60x5 earlier series. However, and a big however, Sony put the dollars in where it counted in terms of sound and quality. I have the 6045 and it makes not excuses in terms of looks and sounds until you compare it to the larger units when the loss of detail become apparent. I really enjoyed using it with my Koss e'stat headphones as a bedside unit for years. $5, let's simply say that you bought a lot of quality in build and sound for less than a pack of cigarettes.

Thanks. nt, posted on October 29, 2009 at 17:43:08
Tadlo
Audiophile

Posts: 1216
Location: midwest
Joined: March 8, 2003
 .

Excellent history lesson!, posted on October 28, 2009 at 18:05:10
Phil D
Dealer

Posts: 1148
Location: Cincinnati
Joined: March 12, 2007
 Thanks for the post! I have a 6060F and will dig it out of the garage and see how she sounds! If I remember correctly, the controls need a good cleaning.

As many of my collector friends know, I really like Sony gear!

RE: Excellent history lesson!, posted on October 29, 2009 at 05:11:43
Brian Levy
Audiophile

Posts: 919
Location: Toronto
Joined: June 5, 2000
 I have some decent receivers but the 6060 seems to rise to the top and if I had to keep only one receiver, I think it would be the 6060 after some long and very hard thought. Of course these tend to need a bit of TLC due to age. I've got 3 and only 1 has a working demultiplexer but they sound so good even in mono it does not seem to matter.

RE: Sony "Mac Killer" vs. McIntosh, posted on October 28, 2009 at 15:51:03
The Real Dick Hertz
Audiophile

Posts: 9061
Location: So. Calif.
Joined: May 25, 2006
 Don't know that those old Sonys were made to be Mac killers, but 70's vintage Sonys were quite good. Built like tanks and dependable as hell.

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