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My Fisher 500c

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Posted on October 22, 2009 at 04:46:29
jaybomb
 Stick with me...
I picked up a cabinetless Fisher 500c at an estate sale semi cheap ($65 with TWO sets of Fisher Speakers from the early 60's and a set of end tables...some folks just don't know how to price stuff), got it home and plugged a very crappy Sony dual cassette into the beast, screwed down a set of hand refinished AR-2's (another estate sale, $10), dropped a store bought cassette of Supertramp's Breakfast In America. I ran side 2 first, as that's what was closer to being ready. "Take The Long Way Home" is how that side starts. Honestly, I have heard that song more than 500 times in my life, more than a thousand, A LOT, anyway, you too probably. Well, I'm here to tell you that I heard MORE of that song in that initial Fisher/Acoustic Research/Piece of Crap Sony playing than I had ever heard before. Immediately, from the sustaining piano at the beginning and being able to hear the individual breaths in SPACE between harmonica wails, I said to myself, this was THE stereo setup that I'd been looking for my whole life. The tapehead in me feels it's important to say that this WAS the A&M Chrome clear re-release version and not the off white original version. Music that shines...

Step 1 was to clean the green coating of whatever it was that was on the 500c off of it. The Fisher was kept in a basement, built into a giant console, and it was covered with a kind of a sticky stuff, and it seemed to be on every exposed surface. I settled on Lysol 4 in 1 cleaner, as I was unsure of the green stuff's biological component. I used it sparingly and now all the dingy surfaces are a back to a clean metal. I didn't want to, but I felt I HAD to remove the tubes to clean the surfaces, so I did it gingerly, one at a time. I had a can of DeOxit and gave each one of the tube sockets a spritz, and wiped the metal prongs. I also did an app of DeOxit on the speaker connectors and the input and output rca jacks. For not having a cabinet, It was looking GOOD.

Step 2 was the install of the Nakamichi. I opted for the BX-1 (I am a tapehead and have a few), again estate sale priced at $25, a little high actually. It's not there best machine by a long shot, but it should trouce that Sony.

As Alec Baldwin said "Third prize is You're Fired". When everything is reattached it sounds like something is terribly wrong. Crackly, static, general badness. The volume is an uncontrollable mess, there's sound coming out of both my speakers, but it's not good, I can hear music, but it's buried under static and I feel like I killed it. Can anyone offer me any where to START, because I'm feelin' REAL BAD.
RE: My Fisher 500c, posted on November 6, 2009 at 17:07:17
6 Meters DX
 Ahh, yes. The incredible edible 500C. My father still has his 500C in almost perfect condition (still in that massive, cheesy wooden console from the 60's), and minimally used all these years, only turning it on a few times a year. Those original Telefunkens sound incredible, and the unit works great. The only visible flaw is that one of the metal caps fell off of the volume control knob.

I'll never forget when I tried hooking up my Magneplanar speakers to the 500C (had to beg my dad) just to satisfy my curiosity. I was bored and curious one Sunday, and that day turned out to be one of the most musically revelatory days in my life! What I heard coming out of those Maggies married to tubes was nothing short of magical! Unfortunately, daddy-o made me disconnect my Maggies after a day of 'eargasm' bliss, because he wanted everything back to 'stock'.

My dad is now 80, and doing quite well following his heart valve replacement earlier this Spring. Frankly, I hope he lives to be 100. I love him dearly. But I can't help thinking about that 500C being mine one day! Oh how WRONG!

RE: My Fisher 500c, posted on October 22, 2009 at 16:26:54
Uncle Mike
Audiophile

Posts: 1305
Location: Eastern Pa.
Joined: June 20, 2003
 Do yourself a favor and search for post and replies by SMGLAW. He knows the the Fisher lineup and is really good with them.

RE: My Fisher 500c, posted on October 22, 2009 at 13:51:39
Michael Samra
Dealer

Posts: 13111
Location: saginaw michigan
Joined: January 30, 2005
Contributor
  Since: June 24, 2005
 Jay
Excellent find. What I would do first and foremost is,replace the selenium rectifier off to the side and,the voltage doubler caps. I also would recap it with some K40y pio caps at least for the output tubes and driver tubes. Do these things and this baby will really come to life.

If the power supply waveform isn't pretty,neither is the sound in most cases.
RE: My Fisher 500c, posted on October 22, 2009 at 11:11:52
Marantzguy
Audiophile

Posts: 2411
Joined: June 21, 2002
 Hi, Jay:

If you are attempting to revitalize your 500-C, you need to operate the set first by using a Variac. Too late for that, eh?

Those sets always need to have most of the original small value coupling capacitors and a bunch of small electrolytic capacitors replaced with fresh stock.

The power supply also needs routine upgrading.

This topic has been discussed so endlessly on this forum that I will not go any further with this discussion than to suggest that you look up all of those postings, many of which were my own.

I have worked on perhaps 20 or more of these sets over the past thirty-five years. I purchased a 500-C brand new when they first came onto the market and let me assure you of one thing: they all need work.

Do what is recommended and you will reap some major audio rewards as far as the listening experience goes.

Most of all, enjoy your purchases!

Lastly, I often use very thin wooden toothpicks to carefully treat and clean out the tube pin sockets on these sets, using DeOxiT and other products. Sparingly, of course!

You should also consider using traditional pipe cleaners to clean, burnish and treat any of the RCA connectors, from the inside.

The "U" shaped bridging connectors on the rear top of the set should ideally be removed, cleaned and the RCA-type sockets into which they sit, cleaned with pipecleaners soaked in contact cleaner, after which you simply reinsert the hoops.

Richard Links
Berkeley, CA

Regarding deoxIT application..., posted on October 22, 2009 at 09:46:34
Bill Thomas
Industry Professional

Posts: 1330
Location: Southern USA
Joined: January 3, 2004
 My current "regimen" for using deoxIT goes this way:

For miniature tube sockets, I first clean each pin using common naphtha (lighter fluid) and then, using a "junk" tube, I insert the tube into the socket and give it a circular motion around the pins. Remove the tube, spritz the contacts with a bit more naphtha and allow it to evaporate.

Once the socket is dry, I squirt deoxIT into each pin of the socket and allow it a few minutes to de-oxidize the contacts. Once again, I use the junk tube to "cut through" any remaining "grunge" and give it a few more minutes of de-oxidation time. (The time interval is not that critical here. It can be allowed to remain overnight, if necessary.

Now, clean the socket pins once again using the naphtha to remove as much of the deoxIT as possible. Allow the naphtha to evaporate. Check the amount of remaining deoxIT. If it appears that the socket has an "oily" residue, apply more naphtha to remove it. You *should* get to a point where the socket and terminals appear "shiny" but not "coated" with deoxIT residue.

THIS is actually the critical step. Apply deoxIT GN5 contact "conditioner" using as little as possible. Ideally, you would prefer to have an application that is a few molecules thick! This is one area where application is TRULY important. The thinner the layer, the better the "conditioner" works.

It takes me over an hour to totally clean, de-oxidize and condition EACH tube socket, but the results (so far) have been well worth the time invested.

Naphtha has become my "brute force" contact cleaner of choice because it doesn't attack most plastics and leaves no residue. It also appears to be pretty effective at removing excess amounts of deoxIT from the tube sockets and pins. I have used other solvents like iso-propyl alcohol, lacquer thinner and acetone, but naphtha appears to do the best job without harming anything.

Caig used to make a product called cramolin. We used it extensively back in the 80's to enhance poor molex connectors in MCI audio consoles. It also required the lightest application possible in order to work properly. The trouble is, cramolin was discovered to have carcinogenic properties, so it was withdrawn from the marketplace. DeoxIT's product line appears to have been introduced to replace cramolin. It CAN work well, but it does require more "fussiness" in application.

Please realize that this information is from my "dim-bulb memory" so the details of the cramolin story *could* be off a bit, but this is how I recall it all going down. This is NOT meant as any sort of indictment of Caig, cramolin, or deoxIT in ANY way.

By the way, this same cleaning "regimen" appears to also work for potentiometers as well. (minus using an old tube to "burnish" the socket contacts.) Clean with naphtha, work the control back and forth (don't EVER force it!) clean again and allow to dry. Apply deoxIT and work the control again. Allow it to "work" for a few minutes or more and then clean the remnants with more naphtha - again "working" the control. Allow to dry. Apply the *tiniest* amount of GN5 and work the control again. I strongly suggest that you try this method on something you don't mind trashing FIRST!

If anyone has any other "tips" that seem to work better, I am all ears; but SO far, this seems to be the method that provides the best results (in my limited experience.)

For octal sockets and such, tiny brushes replace the function of "wiggling" the tube in a circular motion. This reduces the possibility of expanding or "opening" the contacts of the tube socket.

Always keep the "Hippocratic Oath" in mind when working on this stuff: "First, do no harm!"

I hope this is helpful.

Bill Thomas

RE: Regarding deoxIT application..., posted on November 7, 2009 at 17:39:09
baguadao
Audiophile

Posts: 82
Location: singapore
Joined: December 13, 2007
 "My current "regimen" for using deoxIT goes this way:
For miniature tube sockets, I first clean each pin.."

A- are you referring to the pins in the socket which means that the socket is a male ? (I dont own a Fisher yet but will one day)

".. using common naphtha (lighter fluid).."
B-are you referring to the fuel used in lighters ?


".. and then, using a "junk" tube, I insert the tube into the socket and give it a circular motion around the pins. Remove the tube, spritz the contacts with a bit more naphtha and allow it to evaporate..."

C- by 'contacts' which part of the socket or tube are you referring to?

"Once the socket is dry, I squirt deoxIT into each pin of the socket and allow it a few minutes to de-oxidize the contacts. "

D- the socket is the Female if I understand correctly as standard so
by 'pin' here are you referring to the each tiny tunnel of the socket or the pin in the socket which make the socket a Male?

Once again, I use the junk tube to "cut through" any remaining "grunge" and give it a few more minutes of de-oxidation time. (The time interval is not that critical here. It can be allowed to remain overnight, if necessary.

Now, clean the socket pins once again using the naphtha to remove as much of the deoxIT as possible.

E - So by 'socket pins' do I understand that the socket is a Male with pins inside which answers most of my queries?

I am not very familier therefor I need to ask. The tubes used in my AR pre-amp has pins which plug into sockets which are female.

The back of my AR pre-Amp has sockets which have pins which make them Male and where my XLR connector which are female plug into.

Thank you for enlightening us with very detailed description.

Cheers!
baguadao

RE: Regarding deoxIT application..., posted on October 22, 2009 at 16:42:41
Uncle Mike
Audiophile

Posts: 1305
Location: Eastern Pa.
Joined: June 20, 2003
 "Always keep the "Hippocratic Oath" in mind when working on this stuff: "First, do no harm!"
Good thought!
You know that the carrier fluid in Deoxit is naphtha, about 95% of it? That and the lighter fluid and your really juicing up the sockets. The other 5% is Caig's (DL5 get it?) proprietary cleaning formula so it must be pretty stout stuff because it works really well.
I think the result you get it is due to the diligence you put into cleaning more than anything.

RE: Regarding deoxIT application..., posted on October 22, 2009 at 11:59:42
Crazy Dave
Audiophile

Posts: 5944
Location: East Coast
Joined: October 4, 2001
 - It takes me over an hour to totally clean, de-oxidize and condition EACH tube socket, but the results (so far) have been well worth the time invested.

The only problem with that is that you could replace the socket in less time! I use pipe cleaners and alchohol.

Dave
RE: Pipe cleaners and alcohol..., posted on October 22, 2009 at 14:25:57
Bill Thomas
Industry Professional

Posts: 1330
Location: Southern USA
Joined: January 3, 2004
 Pipe cleaners are not recommended. They tend to leave tiny bits and pieces of their "threads" stuck in the contacts of many tube sockets. Alcohol is fine (depending upon the type of alcohol) for cleaning, but it does NOTHING for oxidation.

As far as replacing tube sockets is concerned, that *may* be an option, but it might not. When restoring "vintage" audio equipment, not all tube sockets are still available in the "correct" mounting style or construction. Current-production tube sockets from China are *generally* a poor substitute for even the cheapest of the cheap American sockets of years gone by. There ARE some ceramic octal sockets being produced that mimic the Cinch-style sockets of yesteryear, but most of the miniature 7 and 9-pin sockets I have run into are pretty poor. Your experience may be different.

A few years ago, I contacted Eby to do a run of "classic-style" octal sockets featuring gold-plated contacts. They informed me that they would be happy to do a minimum run of 500 sockets for $22.75 each! Needless to say, we didn't pursue that "venture" much further. However, they WERE a VERY informative contact. While most folks believe that gold-plated sockets are the BEST that can be purchased, it turns out that in MOST cases they are much less than satisfactory. Silver-plated sockets are a better choice! The reason is the thickness of the plating! Gold-plated sockets have a "flash" plating of gold that is as thin as humanly possible. Plug a tube into one ONCE, and you cut through the plating and get down to the base-metal of the tube socket contact. Silver-plated sockets have a MUCH thicker plating and withstand MANY insertions and removals without much problem. Who knew?

Just some idle musings on the subject.

Bill

RE: Pipe cleaners and alcohol..., posted on October 23, 2009 at 10:16:02
Crazy Dave
Audiophile

Posts: 5944
Location: East Coast
Joined: October 4, 2001
 When I did most of my tube work (80's), I could go to the local electronic supply stores and buy NOS tube sockets of any size. Those days are gone. I was not aware of the sorry state of current sockets.

Dave

thanks for the, posted on October 22, 2009 at 18:22:54
sober1
Audiophile

Posts: 1325
Joined: August 9, 2000
 insight on your cleaning/lube regime. I'll be useing it as I have "over Deoxitd'" a piece or two. also, I'll have to pick up some Naptha as I have destroyed a Mac keyboard with alleged "safe for most plastics" electronics cleaner. live & learn... or lurk & learn....

pax vobis
RE: My Fisher 500c, posted on October 22, 2009 at 07:34:30
jaybomb
 Bottom panel is off, and it was a tad red and wet in there, not too bad, but noticable under the big output tubes in the back, and input output rcas.
Took out the big tubes and have it propped up with a fan running on it, will keep you posted.

RE: My Fisher 500c, posted on October 22, 2009 at 08:14:03
JimL
Audiophile

Posts: 3347
Location: New Mexico
Joined: November 24, 2002
 If it's wet and a tad red you have WAAAYYYY too much Deoxit in there. Wipe it off as much as possible.

RE: My Fisher 500c, posted on October 22, 2009 at 06:08:57
JimL
Audiophile

Posts: 3347
Location: New Mexico
Joined: November 24, 2002
 First thing is, I would wipe off all the tube sockets, tube pins, input sockets, output connectors, etc. Basically anywhere you sprayed the Deoxit. Deoxit should be used VERY sparingly. If you squirted it all over the place that could easily be the problem.

RE: My Fisher 500c, posted on October 22, 2009 at 06:35:54
jaybomb
 will the DeOxit dry out, or will wiping it off help?
I SO don't trust myself now.

RE: My Fisher 500c, posted on October 22, 2009 at 08:08:35
JimL
Audiophile

Posts: 3347
Location: New Mexico
Joined: November 24, 2002
 Best to wipe it off. You want to have at most a very thin film, and wiping it off should get rid of any excess. Use a clean piece of cloth.

RE: My Fisher 500c, posted on October 22, 2009 at 05:54:29
Daveslater
Audiophile

Posts: 470
Location: UK
Joined: June 11, 2003
 First I would post in Vintage asylum asking for advice.
Were you a bit liberal with the deoxit and got liquid inside?
Take the base plate off and look for any obvious liquid. Leave it off to dry out then try again.

RE: My Fisher 500c, posted on October 22, 2009 at 05:29:21
Iron Knee
Audiophile

Posts: 31
Location: Middle Florida
Joined: May 17, 2009
 The BX 1 really sucks-

They don't deserve the name Nakamichi on them.

RE: My Fisher 500c, posted on October 22, 2009 at 05:34:10
jaybomb
 probably...

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