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KLH Model Eight - big problem with fading to noise and weak Tuner Output level...

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Posted on September 3, 2007 at 20:16:26
PlasmaFire


 
Hello everyone,

I have a KLH Model Eight tuner (and matching speaker) that, though I absolutely adore listening to jazz with and is in excellent cosmetic condition, has a fairly big problem which has arisen over the past week or so...

The thing is, if I leave the radio on for several hours, the tuner begins to decrease in sensitivity to the point where the entire scale is all noise and no signal; even strong stations in the local area drop out completely. What's strange as well is that the "noise fading" begins at the low end of the scale (90.1 or so) and progresses up towards the higher frequencies over the course of an hour or so.

Even weirder, if I turn off the Model Eight for ~10 minutes and turn it back on, the full tuning range is once again available--only to have it all completely drop out again in about the same amount of time. Shutting down for a couple of hours gives me several hours of listening time (haha, it's like I have to put a dime in this thing to listen to it! :p).

Seems like this a temperature-induced problem, right? I've tried hooking up just the tuner's "Tuner Output" line-level jack to a modern receiver. The signal from it is quite weak (I need to boost it by nearly 20dB on a mixer to get it to appreciable line levels), and the same fade-to-noise problem occurs as well. Using an external 300-ohm dipole antenna instead of the power cord antenna does not help, either.

Could this likely be weak tubes? Or worser yet, old capacitors so common with these tuners? I have very little knowledge about such analog tuners, let alone tube versions and the Model Eight's components (other than the bare-bone basics on how vacuum tubes work, and that's fairly minimal, too). Any service locations near the State College, PA area, as that's where I currently go to school? Should I buy a new set of tubes and get the unit re-aligned instead?

If you have critical advice on the Model Eight for me, e-mail me at plasmafire3000 [at] yahoo.com

Your help is appreciated! Thanks.

 

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RE: KLH Model Eight - big problem with fading to noise and weak Tuner Output level..., posted on September 4, 2007 at 07:14:29
Steve O
Audiophile

Posts: 12362
Location: SE MI
Joined: September 6, 2001
I recently "restored" a Model 8. Restoration consisted of replacing all caps in audio/ratio detector sections (nothing in IF/RF) and power supply electrolytic. All resistors were within tolerance so I left those alone. All tubes also checked as good so I left most of them alone. I did replace the pair of 6BM8 audio outputs because the originals are Telefunken and can probably be flipped for decent $ (but are still in my stash at the moment).

Observations: 1. The only audio type cap really needing replacing was the electrolytic ratio detector filter cap. Although all other signal type caps look pretty cheesy, apparently they're all either plastic film or paper/film combos: all were within tolerance ans none leaked. 2. The power supply filter was in obvious need of replacement because it was leaking internal chemistry. 3. Although I had planned on re-aligning the thing, initial trial run after recap revealed decent sensitivity and proper dial tracking so I left it alone. One possible issue with realignment is that I'm aware of no step-by-step instructions on how to do this. The circuit looks pretty conventional so I could probably extrapolate an alignment procedure from previous experience but I can't determine if the IFs are simple under coupled design with one peak or over coupled dual peak. At some point I may have to determine this for myself.

Your specific problems sound like they're heat related and confined to RF/IF sections or possibly power supply (reduced DC voltage in IF/RF after warm-up). You may also have a tube issue.

I recommend that you try replacing the RF tube first (6BS8). If this doesn't correct the issue, try replacing the IF tubes (a pair of 6AU6s). If this doesn't fix the issue, you need professional assistance based on what you've stated here and elsewhere because you're now looking at internal component evaluation and possible replacement. Also, although probably not nec based on my experience, a realignment might be in order. Proper equipment and experience is needed for this type of work and the only guide will most likely be the schematic on the bottom of the unit.

Good luck. The 8 is a really nice FM receiver...too bad FM programming is so crappy these days. It's almost a waste to have an 8 as the receiver. BTW, although Tivoli "suggests" that the Tivoli Model 1 or whatever they call it is an updated version of the original KLH 8, I assure you it is not. The 8 blows it away in every area except size (assuming small is good) and lack of an AM band

 

RE: KLH Model Eight - big problem with fading to noise and weak Tuner Output level..., posted on November 9, 2007 at 21:32:34
PlasmaFire


 
A follow-up, finally. It's a long one...

As of two days ago, I finally got the radio repaired. It's now playing with its warm mono sound once again in my dorm. Between that day and September 3, however, has been pretty much silence. The condition of the radio started to degrade a few weeks after my first post, and the drift-to-noise issue steadily worsened until one night, the radio cut out completely. The tubes would glow, but the neon pilot lamp was dark, and there was a louder humming noise as the heaters powered up. No sound came out otherwise.

So finally, about two weeks ago, I brought the radio to my physics department's demonstration/equipment man, who also turned out to be a guru with repairing vintage tube equipment! Wow, I learned so much more about my Model Eight just from watching him diagnose and fix the thing. Coming in before as well as after physics class, I kept tabs on the radio as progress was being made...

Somerset.net's Model Eight page was extremely helpful to us, as it provided printable schematics and a layout diagram: http://www.somerset.net/arm/fm_only_klh_8.html

First, we took the chassis out and probed the circuitry with a multimeter for voltages. We soon saw why the Model Eight completely died: the 4x-electrolytic power supply capacitor was “out of steam” from age (seems they were only supposed to serve for 5000 hours on-time maximum), and since the resistors attached to that unit were no longer receiving an even voltage load, the first one literally split from overheating—a bonus “safety feature,” perhaps (which explained why the neon lamp wouldn't light at all—reading the schematics, the 107-volt tube section from the power supply's B terminal received no voltage!). The bad cap set was also the reason for the louder 60 Hz humming sound on power-up; temporarily fixing a modern electrolytic in parallel with the bad cap can reduced the hum a lot.

The fade-to-noise issue originated from that 4x capacitor because of age as well; as the set powered up, the ancient electrolyte's chemistry would cause a significant drop in voltages downstream, causing the low volume levels. Once the internal temperature rose, the voltages would fall even further, silencing the tuner section and hence causing the noise. We saw drops as much as 30-40 volts from the normal schematic levels upon immediate warmup, all due to that single dying component!

Note that the rest of the radio's capacitors looked healthy...what a tedious task it would've been to replace them!

We tested the tubes out with a small tube checker. Almost all of the tubes were weak from age, it seemed, but the worst were two of the three 6AU6A, the 6U8A, and the 6BS8. We left the 6BM8 power amp tubes alone even though they showed weak too, because that might have been due to the old age of the tester's electronics.

The demo guy then told me he'd order four new 60 μF, 200-volt electrolytics from Digi-Key as a substitute for the power supply capacitor. The reason for a 200-volt rating over 150 was because it'd allow for a margin of safety (turned out that the first section [terminal A] was already regulating 145 volts, which might've been a bad thing for Kloss' original design!). Even then, the whole repair process bothered me a little bit: I wanted this unit to look as close to original as possible once repaired. Then very good news: he told me that some of the machine shop guys nearby will chuck the original cap's base in a lathe, cut it off from the rest of the can, and carefully machine the upper can portion so that it'll fit another similar base (from the collection of multi-capacitors he has).

Once the new 60 μF units arrived, he set to work and wired a new ground wire to the chassis as per the original cap's design. Higher-wattage power resistors for the cap were soldered on to the new set, and the necessary new/strong tubes were also installed. A new rectifier diode for the power supply was soldered on (because the old diode might not have been able to take the new capacitor set's faster charging speed).

The biggest surprise came for me yesterday: the machined upper can for the cap was so well-made that I didn't even realize it wasn't epoxied down yet—until he pulled it off and surprised me with a neat wiring job! I might glue it in one of these days. To complete the repair, the old, brittle white power cord was replaced with a new black cord. Oh well, I can't get perfect looks, right? The power cord antenna circuit still worked well after that, though.

To finish it off, I re-assembled the chassis and knobs, polished the cabinets, and “ceremoniously” turned the Model Eight on again. No re-alignment was necessary; in fact, replacing the tubes and capacitor actually brought the radio _back_ into the correct FM scale again!

So to summarize it all, yes, it was the power supply filter capacitor that caused the majority of issues, mainly due to the large voltage drop after warm-up. Weak tubes might've contributed to the low tuner output and volume levels. One of the filter cap's blown resistors killed the set in the end.

Wow, I am extremely thankful for people like my physics demo head. Thank God, too, that this radio is now playing again. Now all that needs to be fixed is the sad state of FM programming! :)

 

RE: KLH Model Eight - big problem with fading to noise and weak Tuner Output level..., posted on November 9, 2007 at 21:47:27
PlasmaFire


 
Oddly enough, I didn't pay my respects to you in the follow-up, Steve O. You helped the demo guy and myself with a headstart on diagnosing the radio.

Thanks!

 

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